Kingdoms

CoreIssue · May 8, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
Are you so very sure that God never used it? An identical twins are natural clones. In any case, God has no particular need to use cloning and I was speaking of the fallen angels possibly using some kind of genetic technology.

Jesus said that, in the Resurrection, we will be like the heavenly angels--if we are to have immortal, real physical bodies, of some sort, wouldn't that indicate that angels already have them?

I hardly ever use the KJV. The New American Standard says, "sons of God" and many other translations do as well. What is your objection? I said that the expression, "sons of God" was referring to angels and your post supports what I was saying rather than your assertion that "sons of God" referred to humans.

I am unaware of any place in the Bible where this assertion is made. I would agree that, if they were not going to reproduce, there would be no particular need for gender, but it definitely does not say that angels are neither male nor female.

Why would I have an argument with that? What I am defending is that it could well have been fallen angels about which Genesis 6:2 is speaking. That in the OT, that appears to be what "sons of God" is referencing.

No argument from me on that statement, but, perhaps that is why certain fallen angels were locked up in the Abyss--because they dared to rebel from God's purpose and plan.

God does not need to use cloning to make twins.

Fallen Angels were in chains so they were not present at that time.

My objections to sons of God for Angels is that is never said in the Hebrew or Greek.

Jesus said we would be like Angels and that we will not marry, be male or female and a couple other things.

But he's also said we will be co-heirs with him, which Angels are not.

The Bible clearly defines Angels as spirit beings, never physical. They never will have glorified bodies because they never had a body to resurrect or glorify.

I never posted one verse that called Angels sons of God.

Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Since there will be been no marriage, no gender and no birth in heaven, gender is a complete waste and pointless.

And if there were male angels there would be female. There would be children angels.

But then they would not be a company anymore. They would become a race and there would be in need of some way for salvation.

No matter how you look at it there is nothing hinting at angels having sex. No sex needs no need for sex organs.

Lady Crosstalk · May 8, 2019

n2thelight said:
Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

Here we get back to the same word that we saw earlier in Genesis 1:2; The Hebrew word "Tohu" for "void". In other words, God is saying, "I destroyed the first heaven and earth age." There simply was no life form existing on this earth at the close of the first earth age in any form.

Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.

Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time.

Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.

That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.

Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

God allowed the waters of the first earth age to recede, and from it came a condition whereby we can live in this second earth age. Each soul, or God's child, will pass through this flesh earth age once, and we have the choice to chose either light or darkness; Jesus Christ or Satan. When God created each soul and gave it free will, He cannot force that soul to love Him. You cannot buy love, or it will be a false love. God is looking for your tender love; from within your free soul. It is your choice.

So we have documented from the Bible that there was an earth age prior to this earth age we now live in. God created that first earth age in good standing to be inhabited, as it was written in Isaiah 45:18; then after this it became "without form and void" [in the Hebrew, "Tohu va bohu"].

Why? Because Satan brought sin into the world of that first earth age. and that sin was so great that one third of all God's children followed Satan, and that sin brought God's anger upon the whole world. It was then that Satan was sentenced to the death of his soul. This is why Satan is called the "son of perdition" in II Thessalonians 2:3, and John 17:12. Satan refused to repent, as God allowed him the time to get right with Him.

Verse three starts after the first earth age, after the overthrow by Satan, and after the total destruction of the first earth age and all life forms on it

All of these posts are WAAAAY too long. Can you summarize?

CoreIssue · May 8, 2019

The Sons of God
lhttps://housetohouse.com/sons-god-book-job/
https://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/reprints/Sons-of-God-in-Genesis-6.pdf

I also thought about where the Bible sarcastically says to men don't you know you are Gods?

You have to be very careful in understanding how the ancient Hebrew and Greek words were.

Such as when the scouts to about the promised land. It says literally they carry a grape on a stick between.

But it meant a stem of grapes, not a single great.

It is the old Hebrew uniplural meaning many in the unity of one.

Same as Elohim means three or more in the unity of one.

Or a married couple being one flesh.

CoreIssue · May 8, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
All of these posts are WAAAAY too long. Can you summarize?

I could post something even longer, but I will not.

Isaiah says God creates nothing shapeless or void. That the earth was intended to be inhabited.

Thus Pre-Adamic creation.

There was the war in heaven which resulted in the earth being laid waste.

The word the confuses many is it says it was, but the Hebrew means was as the resulting state of something. What it became.

Now if you want for explanation, I can give you a link.

Lady Crosstalk · May 8, 2019

CoreIssue said:
God does not need to use cloning to make twins.

It was a joke, CoreIssue.

Fallen Angels were in chains so they were not present at that time.

I don't think we can know WHEN they were put in chains, except Jude 1:6 indicates that they were put in chains after some act of disobedience and rejecting the limits of their authority.

My objections to sons of God for Angels is that is never said in the Hebrew or Greek.

Then why do many translations render it that way with the obvious meaning of angels?

Jesus said we would be like Angels and that we will not marry, be male or female and a couple other things.

Can you give book, chapter and verse for the part which I have underlined?

But he's also said we will be co-heirs with him, which Angels are not.

I never addressed that at all. I agree that Scripture says we are "co-heirs with Christ".

The Bible clearly defines Angels as spirit beings, never physical.

I'm not saying they are not spirit beings. Perhaps the reason why some of the fallen angels got into trouble with God was because they were trying to do more than they were allowed to do. Jude 1:6 seems to indicate that.

They never will have glorified bodies because they never had a body to resurrect or glorify.

Not saying that they will ever be resurrected--I think the angels are already glorified. Spirits have spiritual bodies--this is clearly depicted in Jesus' account of the "other Lazarus" in Luke 16. Also see 1 Corinthians 15:35-57.

I never posted one verse that called Angels sons of God.

No--what you said is that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2 referred to the descendants of Seth and then you quoted a passage that translates the "sons of God" as "angels". I think you are maybe over-tired?

Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV)

Click to expand...

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

What is the point in quoting that? Are you saying that Paul was saying that there were no longer men and women?? He was clearly indicating that we have an equal standing in salvation before God. Has nothing to do with the point that I raised.

Since there will be been no marriage, no gender and no birth in heaven, gender is a complete waste and pointless.

Are you saying that the Bible is wrong in referring to God as having a male gender?

And if there were male angels there would be female. There would be children angels.

Why? Michael and Gabriel are always referred to as male--and Michael is even referenced as a "Prince" which, as far as I know, refers to males.

But then they would not be a company anymore. They would become a race and there would be in need of some way for salvation.

Lady Crosstalk · May 8, 2019

CoreIssue said:
The Sons of God
lhttps://housetohouse.com/sons-god-book-job/
https://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/reprints/Sons-of-God-in-Genesis-6.pdf

I also thought about where the Bible sarcastically says to men don't you know you are Gods?

You have to be very careful in understanding how the ancient Hebrew and Greek words were.

Such as when the scouts to about the promised land. It says literally they carry a grape on a stick between.

But it meant a stem of grapes, not a single great.

It is the old Hebrew uniplural meaning many in the unity of one.

Same as Elohim means three or more in the unity of one.

Or a married couple being one flesh.

I think the Bible translators already figured that one out. The Hebrew word echad refers to a compound unity. So, in the Shema, when the word is used in reference to God, it means a compound unity.

Lady Crosstalk · May 8, 2019

CoreIssue said:
I could post something even longer, but I will not.

Isaiah says God creates nothing shapeless or void. That the earth was intended to be inhabited.

Thus Pre-Adamic creation.

There was the war in heaven which resulted in the earth being laid waste.

The word the confuses many is it says it was, but the Hebrew means was as the resulting state of something. What it became.

Now if you want for explanation, I can give you a link.

I was speaking to "n2thelight" but I'm curious about your idea of a Pre-Adamic creation.

CoreIssue · May 8, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
It was a joke, CoreIssue.

I don't think we can know WHEN they were put in chains, except Jude 1:6 indicates that they were put in chains after some act of disobedience and rejecting the limits of their authority.

Then why do many translations render it that way with the obvious meaning of angels?

Can you give book, chapter and verse for the part which I have underlined?

I never addressed that at all. I agree that Scripture says we are "co-heirs with Christ".

I'm not saying they are not spirit beings. Perhaps the reason why some of the fallen angels got into trouble with God was because they were trying to do more than they were allowed to do. Jude 1:6 seems to indicate that.

Not saying that they will ever be resurrected--I think the angels are already glorified. Spirits have spiritual bodies--this is clearly depicted in Jesus' account of the "other Lazarus" in Luke 16. Also see 1 Corinthians 15:35-57.

No--what you said is that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2 referred to the descendants of Seth and then you quoted a passage that translates the "sons of God" as "angels". I think you are maybe over-tired?

What is the point in quoting that? Are you saying that Paul was saying that there were no longer men and women?? He was clearly indicating that we have an equal standing in salvation before God. Has nothing to do with the point that I raised.

Are you saying that the Bible is wrong in referring to God as having a male gender?

Why? Michael and Gabriel are always referred to as male--and Michael is even referenced as a "Prince" which, as far as I know, refers to males.

Sorry, I missed the joke.

Jude says they were put in chains for rebelling.

The Bible says after Satan rebelled he was cast out and we know he was already on the earth with Adam and Eve.
We also no since then he has roamed the earth and gone before the throne of God is our accuser.

So there's no doubt Satan fell before Adam was created.
How, why, and when did Satan fall from heaven?

We also know Isaiah said God did not create the earth shapeless and avoid, using the exact same Hebrew words Genesis.
Commentaries by CoreIssue

I repeat, the fallen Angels have never been on the earth with humans. They have always been changed in the pit since the war in heaven.

Angels are never glorified. Only flesh is glorified.

I gave you links to prove sons of God are not angels.

Paul is speaking of the church spiritually. Which coincides with how we will be in the new Jerusalem. Neither male or female.

And of course if we are no longer male or female we have equal standing according to the rewards we receive at the the rapture.

The male use for God and angels is Hebrew linguistics. It has nothing to do with gender. It has everything to do with position and authority.

Same with prince.

An example, in Old Testament Israel there is no reference to Israel ever having a queen.

58 years of study I hope I have learned something. In fact more than many other believers because I am of obsessive seeking an answer on an issue.

If you wish to drive yourself crazy, study use of male and female language in ancient Greek and Hebrew.

CoreIssue · May 8, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
I think the Bible translators already figured that one out. The Hebrew word echad refers to a compound unity. So, in the Shema, when the word is used in reference to God, it means a compound unity.

A translator is not to. Their job is to accurately translate what is said and meant. Nothing more.

n2thelight · May 9, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
I was speaking to "n2thelight" but I'm curious about your idea of a Pre-Adamic creation.

He got it ,could not had said it better.

To add,we were never meant to be made flesh,had satan not rebelled we wouldn't had been ,but that would have meant God would had killed satan and all that followed him,so He came up with another plan,us being born with no remembrance of what happened in that age.

However you have some that were already justified,like Paul and them.

Lady Crosstalk · May 9, 2019

CoreIssue said:
A translator is not to. Their job is to accurately translate what is said and meant. Nothing more.

I once knew a woman who worked as a translator at the U.N. She said that the work of translating often involves compromise--that she might translate something in a way that another translator would not. It is not that cut and dried. Translators often disagree with each other.

CoreIssue · May 9, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
I once knew a woman who worked as a translator at the U.N. She said that the work of translating often involves compromise--that she might translate something in a way that another translator would not. It is not that cut and dried. Translators often disagree with each other.

Is most assuredly to.

Like one linguist I worked with the Navy pointed out why the gas station named ESSO changed its name.

That's just say in Chinese and mean something rather smelly.

Jon Mathews · May 9, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Is there one or more?

In the 3rd heaven, there is only 1 Kingdom.... the Kingdom of God.
In the 2nd and 1st heavens, there are 2 kingdoms, the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of Darkness.

In the end, Satan's kingdom will be destroyed and God will be "All in All", when all His enemies are made a footstool under his feet. Until that Day (the Day of the Lord), Satan is the god of this world, the prince of the power of the air, and his kingdom is allowed to exist.

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Kingdoms

CoreIssue

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Lady Crosstalk

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