Good answer!In the past God allowed unholy men to worship Him in a certain location...the temple. It was the temple that was holy...not the people. But now WE are the temple and WE need to be holy in order to carry God's presence with us.
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Good answer!In the past God allowed unholy men to worship Him in a certain location...the temple. It was the temple that was holy...not the people. But now WE are the temple and WE need to be holy in order to carry God's presence with us.
Jesus seen as elitist? The common people loved Jesus, that was a big part of the rulers being against Him.Jesus was condemned by the crowd. He was seen as too elitist...to use your political jargon.
And that is essentially the history of mankind AND the modern church. Nobody wants to esteem others higher than themselves. No one wants to obey the Lord. And the ones who do are criticized by the non-obedient ones as ...elitist.
I see several different kinds of worship: Corporate, personal and private. Also, I find that our very lives should reflect true worship in Spirit and Truth, as we continue in our daily lives we should be glorifying Him through our thoughts, actions and very beings connected to Him always. 1 Cor. 10:31
Lifting up thanks always to Him for what He has done for us and sharing those things with others (IMO) is also a form of worship.
Hi Invisibilis,Since our innermost being is already at rest with the Truth, why then this need to perform these tasks. It sounds the opposite of the very nature of our innermost being (spirit of God within us).
In order for the love of God (which is shed abroad in our hearts and therefore free to roam within us) to be free and dominant within us...the ego needs to be put into a box....or...crucified. And we bury that box in deep storage because as long as Christ is our life...we don't need the ego. We store it in a box that we don't ever open, at least we should never desire to open it. It's akin to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
True, we cannot, but again, that new life in Christ . . . this gives the freedom and grace to overcome. It seems to me you have the cart before the horse.Of ourselves we can't worship in Spirit and truth. We need to go through (overcome) the pull of the world and our carnal natures to have that kind of freedom and grace.
Amen! Life in Christ!We are slaves to sin and the law of sin and death until a greater law causes us to overcome that law. It's like the law of flight that overcomes the law of gravity. That is what grace does.
I think the real answer is that you must be born again. It's not about self-control, burying the ego in a box, it's about a new life. And then the new life gives us control.
Hi Invisibilis. You ask an excellent question which is part of the ongoing religion versus relationship discussion. The history of Samaria as a place where paganism and ignorance had created a "mongrel" belief system, is noted in these OT verses.John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."
This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?
Hi Nancy,
I have the idea that the lifting of thanks is like the sacrifices in the temple, while gratitude from the heart is the spirit and truth that Jesus is speaking of.
I like what you wrote here:
as we continue in our daily lives we should be glorifying Him through our thoughts, actions and very beings connected to Him always.
Much love!
Hi Mike, And welcome!
Yes! And not only because you've quoted one of my very favorites.
I think that worshipping in spirit and in truth is to say that external worship is over, all the temple ceremony, and now, instead of being sinners hidden under the sacrifice, now we are made new, and we are reconciled, spiritually alive, and not by atonement, but by a new birth.
We are in truth His children, His worshipers.
Much love!
Tozer said..in each one of us is a cross and a throne...either we are on the cross and Christ is on the throne or else we are on the cross and Christ is on the throne. That is where the "no longer I" comes in.
I would say that Tozer is right....and I additionally put that as....either the ego is free and loose in us and God is in a box...or else we lose the ego into a box and Christ is loose and free within us.
Don't forget that the ego is part of 'self'. It was created by the mind so it can identify itself, for both the brain and mind cannot be sensed by our senses. So, if we bury the ego, in the hope of never experiencing it again, we will be also burying the 'self'. But we need the 'self' because it is the self (self-will) which holds the power to make choices, as in 'to be true, or not to be true'. Besides, I have never heard of a person capable of burying their ego (for too long). However, we can 'choose' to never trust it again....In order for the love of God (which is shed abroad in our hearts and therefore free to roam within us) to be free and dominant within us...the ego needs to be put into a box....or...crucified. And we bury that box in deep storage because as long as Christ is our life...we don't need the ego. We store it in a box that we don't ever open, at least we should never desire to open it. It's akin to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Tozer said..in each one of us is a cross and a throne...either we are on the cross and Christ is on the throne or else we are on the cross and Christ is on the throne. That is where the "no longer I" comes in.
I would say that Tozer is right....and I additionally put that as....either the ego is free and loose in us and God is in a box...or else we lose the ego into a box and Christ is loose and free within us.
Faith is easy as long as we don't trust the ego. Ego is always needy and wanting. Faith does not work under any conditionality, including wants and needs. It only works unconditionally, accepting whatever God's will is for us. Faith vacates self/ego from our consciousness and invites Truth to merge with our consciousness. When that happens, our thoughts and feelings are expressions of truth. Truth sets us free. Free of fear, wants, needs, and sin. Free is to be unconditional, free from the bondage of self. Free is Truth, Love and Faith. Free is easy, free is rest.Of ourselves we can't worship in Spirit and truth. We need to go through (overcome) the pull of the world and our carnal natures to have that kind of freedom and grace.
We are slaves to sin and the law of sin and death until a greater law causes us to overcome that law. It's like the law of flight that overcomes the law of gravity. That is what grace does.
So in other words, we worship in loving the Truth. Spirit is true, loving and faithful. So, to worship in spirit is to worship God in unconditional faith, love, and absolute honesty (truth).Hi Invisibilis,
I'm seeing that this passages reads a little differently than you have here, that the time is coming and now is, that the true worshipers shall worship the Father . . . "in spirit and in truth", rather than "in the spirit".
Worshiping in spirit would be as opposed to worshiping in flesh. We don't do outward acts of worship that require a bronze altar, and temple.
This was what the woman was asking about, where are we to worship? Jesus answers her, you are to worship God in spirit, an entirely different kind of worship.
Those who worship God worship in spirit and in truth.
Before regeneration, all men had was flesh, and worshiped God in their flesh. But then Jesus brought rebirth, and a new spirit life, and that is now how God is worshiped.
We have a new spirit which gives God worship, and does so in truth.
Not like the pharisee who thanked God he wasn't like the others . . . That's not worship.
Jesus' answer to her was to direct her to an entirely different way.
In spirit is to say, it's inside us, it's about who we are, and who God is, in reality, in our lives. No pretense. No show. Only truth. Are you truly His? Are you a new creation? These are God's worshipers. Not simply whomever gathers at the temple.
Much love!
So in other words, we worship in loving the Truth. Spirit is true, loving and faithful. So, to worship in spirit is to worship God in unconditional faith, love, and absolute honesty (truth).
I am not so sure Tozer is right, any man who has being to the cross, has already died, and now has only Christ before Him who is leading Him the to newness of life, on that narrow path, that cross has being behind many for many a year, following the lamb of God who was slain before the beginning of time.
Don't forget that the ego is part of 'self'. It was created by the mind so it can identify itself, for both the brain and mind cannot be sensed by our senses. So, if we bury the ego, in the hope of never experiencing it again, we will be also burying the 'self'. But we need the 'self' because it is the self (self-will) which holds the power to make choices, as in 'to be true, or not to be true'. Besides, I have never heard of a person capable of burying their ego (for too long). However, we can 'choose' to never trust it again.