Paul Christensen
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- Mar 2, 2020
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I don't see "contentious" in the list of the fruit of the Spirit, but I do see it in the list of the works of the flesh.
Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.
- Thread starter Hobie
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When you do it out of love, not fear, and truly do it from the heart as Christ made clear.
Matthew 22:35-37 King James Version (KJV)
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Joshua 22:5
But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the Lord charged you, to love the Lord your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
You are 'free', only if you truly accept the Son, and do as He asks. We then walk even beyond the law.
John 14:20-21 King James Version (KJV)
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Matthew 5:19-20 King James Version (KJV)
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The argument God needs rest is <silly>, yes; so why do you use it?
Because it is <silly> that God NEEDS rest, it does not make the argument and fact God HAS his Sabbath Rest Day, <silly>;
or that "the Seventh Day is the Sabbath Rest Day OF the LORD GOD" <silly>;
or that the Sabbath "the Day on" which "GOD RESTED from all his works", is <silly>.
And yes, you're right, that <<if Christians are concerned about which day is the Sabbath, they are concerned about the wrong thing>>, because "Jesus gave them Rest" by having "revived" from the dead "on the Sabbath of the LORD"* "the Seventh Day God thus concerning spake,"** both, from the beginning, and, "in these the last days .. BY THE SON".
This is why The Book says "the Sabbath was made for man / Man", "the Son of Man", which, therefore, is "the Lord's Day"; and who, "therefore, is Lord of the Sabbath".
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It is Paul Christensen AGAIN who makes covert false judgements, and it is Paul Christensen who is the man of peace under a cloak of a false <Spirit> and will not hear or see or tolerate Scripture.
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Yes, this is correct Arminianism. The correct Calvinism though, would be, You are 'free' only if you through the grace of God are accepted in the Son and the Son set you free to do as He asks and the Holy Spirit prompts -- but for the grace of God not as the old man and human nature would have dictated. Which is the Way of The Law of Christ and of Life in Him.
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No.
and the answer that was 'obvious' in your posts are not in line with what God says is important at all.
p.s. the distracting red paragraph included with your posts doesn't help anyone.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
I don't know why have such a hardon for my signature. If its bothering you that much, just have the holy spirit you believe you have help you overcome it. As the saying goes, with God all things are possible. And yes, the only thing that matters in the end to me is Jesus, unless you are claiming that observing the sabbath is what saves.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
I came across this...
"American Congregationalists: No authority in the New Testament for substitution of the first day for the seventh
“The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without any authority in the New Testament.” Dr. Lyman Abbott, in the Christian Union, June 26, 1890
Anglican: Nowhere commanded to keep the first day
“And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day. The reason why we keep the first of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, – not because the Bible, but because the church, has enjoined [commanded] it.” Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism, Vol. 1, pp 334, 336.
Anglican/Episcopal: The Catholics changed it “We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ.” Episcopalian Bishop Symour, Why we keep Sunday.
Baptist: Sunday Sabbath not in the scriptures
“There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not on Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of truimph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the Seventh to the First day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the Seventh to the First day of the week…
Church of England: No warrant from scripture for the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday
“Neither did he(Jesus), or his disciples, ordain another Sabbath in the place of this, as if they had intended only to shift the day; and to transfer this honor to some other time. Their doctrine and their practise are directly contrary, to so new a fancy. It is true, that in some tract of time, the Church in honor of his resurrection, did set apart that day on the which he rose, to holy exercises: but this upon their own authority, and without warrant from above, that we can hear of; more then the generall warrant which God gave his Church, that all things in it be done decently, and in comely order.” Dr. Peter Heylyn of the Church of England, quoted in History of the Sabbath, Pt 2, Ch.2, p7
Congregationalist: The Christian Sabbath’ [Sunday] is not in the Scripture
“The Christian Sabbath’ [Sunday] is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive [early Christian] church called the Sabbath.” Timothy Dwight, Theology, sermon 107, 1818 ed., Vol. IV, p49 [Dwight (1752-1817) was president of Yale University from 1795-1817].
Disciples of Christ: It is all old wives’ fables to talk of the ‘change of the sabbath’
“If it [the Ten Commandments] yet exist, let us observe it… And if it does not exist, let us abandon a mock observance of another day for it. ‘But,’ say some, ‘it was changed from the seventh to the first day.’ Where? when? and by whom? – No, it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned [in Genesis 2:1-3] must be changed before the observance or respect to the reason, can be changed. It is all old wives’ fables to talk of the ‘change of the sabbath’ from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio, – I think his name is “Doctor Antichrist.’” Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, February 2, 1824, vol 1, no. 7
Episcopal: Bible commandment says the seventh day
“The Bible commandment says on the seventh-day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday.” Phillip Carrington, quoted in Toronto Daily Star, Oct 26, 1949 [Carrington (1892-), Anglican archbishop of Quebec, spoke the avove in a message on this subject delivered to a packed assembly of clergymen. It was widely reported at the time in the news media].
Lutheran: They err in teaching Sunday Sabbath
But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel…..These churches err in their teaching, for scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect” John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp.15, 16
Methodist: Jesus did not abolish the moral law – no command to keep holy the first day
The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He Jesus did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which can never be broken…Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.” John Wesley, Sermons on Several Occasions, Vol.1, No. 25
“It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But, from His own words, we see that He came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath base it only on a supposition.” Amos Binney, Theological Compendium, 1902 edition, pp 180-181, 171 [Binney (1802-1878), Methodist minister and presiding elder, whose Compendium was published for forty years in many languages, also wrote a Methodist New Testament Commentary].
Moody Bible Institute: “Sabbath was before Sinai”
“I honestly believe that this commandment [the Sabbath commandment] is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated [abolilshed], but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. ‘The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath’ [mark 2:27]. It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was – in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
“The [Seventh-day] Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This Fourth Commandment [Exodus 20:8-11] begins with the word ‘remember,’ showing that the Sabbath had already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they admit that the other nine are still binding? Dwight.L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, 1898, pp.46-47 [D.L. Moody, (1837-1899) was the most famous evangelist of his time, and founder of the Moody Bible Institute].
“This Fourth is not a commandment for one place, or one time, but for all places and times.” D.L. Moody, at San Francisco, Jan. 1st, 1881....
"American Congregationalists: No authority in the New Testament for substitution of the first day for the seventh
“The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without any authority in the New Testament.” Dr. Lyman Abbott, in the Christian Union, June 26, 1890
Anglican: Nowhere commanded to keep the first day
“And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day. The reason why we keep the first of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, – not because the Bible, but because the church, has enjoined [commanded] it.” Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism, Vol. 1, pp 334, 336.
Anglican/Episcopal: The Catholics changed it “We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ.” Episcopalian Bishop Symour, Why we keep Sunday.
Baptist: Sunday Sabbath not in the scriptures
“There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not on Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of truimph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the Seventh to the First day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the Seventh to the First day of the week…
Church of England: No warrant from scripture for the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday
“Neither did he(Jesus), or his disciples, ordain another Sabbath in the place of this, as if they had intended only to shift the day; and to transfer this honor to some other time. Their doctrine and their practise are directly contrary, to so new a fancy. It is true, that in some tract of time, the Church in honor of his resurrection, did set apart that day on the which he rose, to holy exercises: but this upon their own authority, and without warrant from above, that we can hear of; more then the generall warrant which God gave his Church, that all things in it be done decently, and in comely order.” Dr. Peter Heylyn of the Church of England, quoted in History of the Sabbath, Pt 2, Ch.2, p7
Congregationalist: The Christian Sabbath’ [Sunday] is not in the Scripture
“The Christian Sabbath’ [Sunday] is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive [early Christian] church called the Sabbath.” Timothy Dwight, Theology, sermon 107, 1818 ed., Vol. IV, p49 [Dwight (1752-1817) was president of Yale University from 1795-1817].
Disciples of Christ: It is all old wives’ fables to talk of the ‘change of the sabbath’
“If it [the Ten Commandments] yet exist, let us observe it… And if it does not exist, let us abandon a mock observance of another day for it. ‘But,’ say some, ‘it was changed from the seventh to the first day.’ Where? when? and by whom? – No, it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned [in Genesis 2:1-3] must be changed before the observance or respect to the reason, can be changed. It is all old wives’ fables to talk of the ‘change of the sabbath’ from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio, – I think his name is “Doctor Antichrist.’” Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, February 2, 1824, vol 1, no. 7
Episcopal: Bible commandment says the seventh day
“The Bible commandment says on the seventh-day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday.” Phillip Carrington, quoted in Toronto Daily Star, Oct 26, 1949 [Carrington (1892-), Anglican archbishop of Quebec, spoke the avove in a message on this subject delivered to a packed assembly of clergymen. It was widely reported at the time in the news media].
Lutheran: They err in teaching Sunday Sabbath
But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel…..These churches err in their teaching, for scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect” John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp.15, 16
Methodist: Jesus did not abolish the moral law – no command to keep holy the first day
The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He Jesus did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which can never be broken…Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.” John Wesley, Sermons on Several Occasions, Vol.1, No. 25
“It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But, from His own words, we see that He came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath base it only on a supposition.” Amos Binney, Theological Compendium, 1902 edition, pp 180-181, 171 [Binney (1802-1878), Methodist minister and presiding elder, whose Compendium was published for forty years in many languages, also wrote a Methodist New Testament Commentary].
Moody Bible Institute: “Sabbath was before Sinai”
“I honestly believe that this commandment [the Sabbath commandment] is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated [abolilshed], but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. ‘The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath’ [mark 2:27]. It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was – in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
“The [Seventh-day] Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This Fourth Commandment [Exodus 20:8-11] begins with the word ‘remember,’ showing that the Sabbath had already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they admit that the other nine are still binding? Dwight.L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, 1898, pp.46-47 [D.L. Moody, (1837-1899) was the most famous evangelist of his time, and founder of the Moody Bible Institute].
“This Fourth is not a commandment for one place, or one time, but for all places and times.” D.L. Moody, at San Francisco, Jan. 1st, 1881....
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The first and last days belong to God. The 6 days in the middle are Adam's punishment of labor.
Exodus 20:9-11 ESV - Six days you shall labor, and do all ...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20:9-11&version=ESV
Exodus 20:9-11 English Standard Version (ESV). 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all ...
Same six days.
Exo 16:26
Six H8337 days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
Tools
Exo 20:9
Six H8337 days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Tools
Exo 20:11
For in six H8337 days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
H8337 - shesh - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)
Six H8337 days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
Tools
Six H8337 days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Tools
For in six H8337 days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
H8337 - shesh - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)
Well I usually rest 2 days a week anyway.
Shhhhhhh I have worked on a Saturday a few times In the past
Shhhhhhh I have worked on a Saturday a few times In the past
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I have done quite a bit of study on this topic. I know all the arguments for Sunday because I was brought up in a Sunday church, the main reason was that in those days, virtually everyone had Sunday off from work. A large number had Saturday as well except the Retail Trade which worked on Saturday mornings and had Wednesday afternoon off in lieu.
I realise that is not the case today as most shops are open 7 days a week except in smaller locations where they still close on Sunday.
Like all subjects of this nature, if one is going to do a serious study of it, one has to start with scripture and work out from there. If you don't do this you make scripture fit your theology rather than make your theology fit scripture.
First I want to make it quite clear that the Sabbath Rest spoken of in scripture has nothing at all to do with the Sabbath day. The Sabbath Rest in Hebrews 4 is something that we all enter into as we cease from our labours or as the Greek says to enter into our abode. When we have a day off we do not enter into our abode.
No, the weekly sabbath is a day of weekly repose from secular work.
Now regarding background, the NTC was a Jewish church that did not stop being Jews when they became a member of " The Way" as they were known, which was a sect of Judaism. At the time of its formation on the day of Pentecost, it would not have entered their head to meet on Sunday because they all worked at secular jobs on Sunday. Their day of rest was sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. They did not change their work habits because they were a member of " The Way."
As for the verses that talk about the first day of the week in the original Greek it does not says that. it says "On one of the Sabbaths" which of course was referring to the Saturday sabbaths.
The Saturday Sabbath was changed by the apostate church to Sunday to satisfy the adherents of pagan religions that met on Sunday. Not all of them did, but many of them did. Slowly as we know, all manner of paganism infiltrated the church to enable it to conform to man's way of thinking so instead of the church changing the world as it did originally the world changed the church.
I know that many people say what difference does it make what day of the week we meet. Let's look at such a concept.
What difference does it make if we don't meet at all?
What difference does it make if we don't teach people to be baptised?
What difference does it make if we don't pray?
What difference does it make whether we drink grape juice of wine?
What difference does it make if we have a pastor running the church and not Elders?
What difference does it make if we meet in a hall, not our homes?
What difference does it make what sort of songs we sing?
I could go on suggesting all sorts of things, but you see when you start with one what difference does it make you get into all sorts of what difference does it make and you end up justifying about everything to not follow the teaching of scripture which is what a lot of of denominations have done and the end result is that you have a church today that bears no resemblance to the New Testament church or what the scripture teaches.
Even the catholic church which claims to be the one true church is a church that bears no resemblance to the one true new testament church.
So the answer is it makes all the difference in the world if you want to go your own way and ignore scripture.
I realise that is not the case today as most shops are open 7 days a week except in smaller locations where they still close on Sunday.
Like all subjects of this nature, if one is going to do a serious study of it, one has to start with scripture and work out from there. If you don't do this you make scripture fit your theology rather than make your theology fit scripture.
First I want to make it quite clear that the Sabbath Rest spoken of in scripture has nothing at all to do with the Sabbath day. The Sabbath Rest in Hebrews 4 is something that we all enter into as we cease from our labours or as the Greek says to enter into our abode. When we have a day off we do not enter into our abode.
No, the weekly sabbath is a day of weekly repose from secular work.
Now regarding background, the NTC was a Jewish church that did not stop being Jews when they became a member of " The Way" as they were known, which was a sect of Judaism. At the time of its formation on the day of Pentecost, it would not have entered their head to meet on Sunday because they all worked at secular jobs on Sunday. Their day of rest was sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. They did not change their work habits because they were a member of " The Way."
As for the verses that talk about the first day of the week in the original Greek it does not says that. it says "On one of the Sabbaths" which of course was referring to the Saturday sabbaths.
The Saturday Sabbath was changed by the apostate church to Sunday to satisfy the adherents of pagan religions that met on Sunday. Not all of them did, but many of them did. Slowly as we know, all manner of paganism infiltrated the church to enable it to conform to man's way of thinking so instead of the church changing the world as it did originally the world changed the church.
I know that many people say what difference does it make what day of the week we meet. Let's look at such a concept.
What difference does it make if we don't meet at all?
What difference does it make if we don't teach people to be baptised?
What difference does it make if we don't pray?
What difference does it make whether we drink grape juice of wine?
What difference does it make if we have a pastor running the church and not Elders?
What difference does it make if we meet in a hall, not our homes?
What difference does it make what sort of songs we sing?
I could go on suggesting all sorts of things, but you see when you start with one what difference does it make you get into all sorts of what difference does it make and you end up justifying about everything to not follow the teaching of scripture which is what a lot of of denominations have done and the end result is that you have a church today that bears no resemblance to the New Testament church or what the scripture teaches.
Even the catholic church which claims to be the one true church is a church that bears no resemblance to the one true new testament church.
So the answer is it makes all the difference in the world if you want to go your own way and ignore scripture.
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