Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Kermos · May 16, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Matthew 14:28-29.

At the time of Matthew 14:28-29, Peter had faith for Jesus said "You of little faith" (Matthew 14:31).

Faith/belief is the work of God for Lord Jesus says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Peter could walk on water because God is already there with Peter, and the Word of God says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

A person ONLY has the ability to bear good fruit when the Spirit of God is with the person for it is written "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

Behold, his deeds and God "wrought".

It is God that give the ability to obey a command.

A command does not convey ability.

Then, there is no free will indicated for all of mankind. And therefore man is not responsible for his own sin. Thus, the day of judgment would have no basis in justice; it would be a kangaroo court. God would be putting people in hell who had no choice in the matter but to sin against Him.

Your first sentence in the paragraph is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, but then you break into your thoughts.

It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A man most certainly is accountable for his own sins.

You seem to be unaware of a fundamental Christian doctrine, so here it is:

God is mercifully loving to save any of the rebellious persons, we beneficiaries

FOR the first nature of all men is enmity against God

MOREOVER, that first nature, the default nature, the enemy against God nature is sometimes referred to as the sin nature

AND that is just like the first man, Adam, from the earth, earthy (1 Corinthians 15:47)

FOR through Adam sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men (Romans 5:12)

AND respecting the first nature all people have no choice in the matter, all people enter life with the sin nature (Colossians 1:13-14, Colossians 1:21-22)

YET people in the first nature are incapable of pleasing God (Romans 8:8)

AND people of the sin nature cannot understand spiritual things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14)

SO God's regeneration of men in the renewing by the Holy Spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus 3:5)

AND by the act of God, the old things passed away while the new creature has come (2 Corinthians 5:17)

AND the "old things", the first and default nature, is carnal/darkness/wicked/evil/dead/natural - in/by/of/for man

BUT the "new things", the God imparted nature, is Spirit/Light/righteous/good/life/eternal - in/by/of/for Christ

SO the "new creature" is made holy by the Holy God named Jesus Christ

AND the "new creature" is in Christ, and only the "new creature", we born again by God, are in Christ

AND in Christ all will be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22)

God is just (Deuteronomy 32:4).

Kermos · May 16, 2020

GISMYS_7 said:
Adam chose to not obey God = Adam made the choice he was not forced!

What scriptural proof do you have for your a claim? It is not Genesis 2:17 nor Genesis 3:22 becuase neither indicates Adam choosing; on the other hand, both indicate a action. That is action not choice.

Kermos · May 16, 2020

DNB said:
No, of course not. For, Adam was created on the 6th day, and the beginning of creation started on the 1st day.
Therefore, Adam was not endowed with free-will from the beginning of creation.

The Word of God says "from the beginning of creation, [God] made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate." (Mark 10:6-9).

Lore Jesus included Adam and Eve as being from the beginning.

Adam was not imparted with free will, period.

Kermos · May 16, 2020

101G said:
Addressing the OP only, good post and good replies. but "Free Will" is also a desire, for they are Similar or synonyms with each other. and right in chapter 3 we have our answer. Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

the choice, or the free will was to be wise. and it was a choice, "to make" ... one wise.

PICJAG.

Pointing out "desire" is astute. It's scripture in the creation account.

When we look at the word "desire", it represents a state of being". Here are three states of desire:
1) attraction (desirous)
2) unattraction (undesirous)
3) indifference (could be classified as undesirous)

When we look at the Hebrew word chamad (Strong's Hebrew: 2530. חָמַד (chamad) -- to desire, take pleasure in), we find a variety of acceptable English words for translation, such as (these are all occurrences of chamad conjugations in the concordance for the NASB): attracted (1), covet (6), coveted (1), delight (1), desirable (2), desire (1), desired (2), desires (2), pleasing (1), precious (2), precious things (1), took great delight (1).

The English word "covet" has a special application in Genesis 3:6, yet "desire" still conveys synonymous meaning.

IMPORTANT POINT: God reserved the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree was prohibited to man for food - reserved from man by Creator God.

The tree was desirable for food by Eve.

It can also be written as: the tree was covetable for food by Eve.

The desire, the coveting, was for the tree that did not belong to Eve nor Adam for food, please recall the IMPORTANT POINT.

Now, bringing this all together, God did generously provide attributes for man as well as withhold attributes from man

BUT the Word of God expressed man's "act" which was to eat the fruit of the tree (Genesis 3:6, the second portion)

WHILE simultaneously the Word is silent about man's "will" in the Creation account

YET Scripture records man's "lust" with

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food,
and that it was a delight to the eyes,
and that the tree was desirable to make [one] wise (Genesis 3:6, the first portion)

AND in Genesis 3:6, the first portion precedes the second portion

THUS the "lust" precedes the "act"

AND the "act" precedes the punishment (Genesis 3:8-24)

THEREFORE the "lust" precedes the punishment

SO the "lust" occurred in man when man's state was between being created and the punishment, that is pre-punishment

Desire does not equal "choice" nor "free will".

Covet does not equal "choice" nor "free will".

The coveting preceds the action.

The Apostle Paul wrote about coveting with "I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COVET.' But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin [is] dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good" (Romans 7:7-12).

Here is the full verse of Genesis 3:6

"When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make [one] wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6).

Notice, the passaged does not say "she chose to take from its fruit and chose to eat"; furthermore, the passage does not state "he chose to eat" at the end fo the verse.

There is a word for "choose" in Hebrew, but that word does not occur here in this passage.

Genesis 3:6 expresses lust.

Genesis 3:6 does not express choice for it is not written.

Genesis 3:6 expresses action for it is written.

Adam was not imparted with the attribute of free will.

101G · May 16, 2020

Kermos said:
Pointing out "desire" is astute. It's scripture in the creation account.

When we look at the word "desire", it represents a state of being". Here are three states of desire:
1) attraction (desirous)
2) unattraction (undesirous)
3) indifference (could be classified as undesirous)

When we look at the Hebrew word chamad (Strong's Hebrew: 2530. חָמַד (chamad) -- to desire, take pleasure in), we find a variety of acceptable English words for translation, such as (these are all occurrences of chamad conjugations in the concordance for the NASB): attracted (1), covet (6), coveted (1), delight (1), desirable (2), desire (1), desired (2), desires (2), pleasing (1), precious (2), precious things (1), took great delight (1).

The English word "covet" has a special application in Genesis 3:6, yet "desire" still conveys synonymous meaning.

IMPORTANT POINT: God reserved the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree was prohibited to man for food - reserved from man by Creator God.

The tree was desirable for food by Eve.

It can also be written as: the tree was covetable for food by Eve.

The desire, the coveting, was for the tree that did not belong to Eve nor Adam for food, please recall the IMPORTANT POINT.

Now, bringing this all together, God did generously provide attributes for man as well as withhold attributes from man

BUT the Word of God expressed man's "act" which was to eat the fruit of the tree (Genesis 3:6, the second portion)

WHILE simultaneously the Word is silent about man's "will" in the Creation account

YET Scripture records man's "lust" with

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food,
and that it was a delight to the eyes,
and that the tree was desirable to make [one] wise (Genesis 3:6, the first portion)

AND in Genesis 3:6, the first portion precedes the second portion

THUS the "lust" precedes the "act"

AND the "act" precedes the punishment (Genesis 3:8-24)

THEREFORE the "lust" precedes the punishment

SO the "lust" occurred in man when man's state was between being created and the punishment, that is pre-punishment

Desire does not equal "choice" nor "free will".

Covet does not equal "choice" nor "free will".

The coveting preceds the action.

The Apostle Paul wrote about coveting with "I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COVET.' But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin [is] dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good" (Romans 7:7-12).

Here is the full verse of Genesis 3:6

"When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make [one] wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6).

Notice, the passaged does not say "she chose to take from its fruit and chose to eat"; furthermore, the passage does not state "he chose to eat" at the end fo the verse.

There is a word for "choose" in Hebrew, but that word does not occur here in this passage.

Genesis 3:6 expresses lust.

Genesis 3:6 does not express choice for it is not written.

Genesis 3:6 expresses action for it is written.

Adam was not imparted with the attribute of free will.

First thanks for the reply, second, Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,". that's the key to choice, and free will.

Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

that's a choice of free will. as with this, Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

dominion is to act, and this was given unto them by God himself. thay had the right to act either good or bad. that's free will.

PICJAG.

justbyfaith · May 16, 2020

Kermos said:
It is God that give the ability to obey a command.

Yes, through giving that command.

Kermos said:
A command does not convey ability.

I beg to differ.

Kermos said:
Your first sentence in the paragraph is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, but then you break into your thoughts.

It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A man most certainly is accountable for his own sins.

You seem to be unaware of a fundamental Christian doctrine, so here it is:

God is mercifully loving to save any of the rebellious persons, we beneficiaries

FOR the first nature of all men is enmity against God

MOREOVER, that first nature, the default nature, the enemy against God nature is sometimes referred to as the sin nature

AND that is just like the first man, Adam, from the earth, earthy (1 Corinthians 15:47)

FOR through Adam sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men (Romans 5:12)

AND respecting the first nature all people have no choice in the matter, all people enter life with the sin nature (Colossians 1:13-14, Colossians 1:21-22)

YET people in the first nature are incapable of pleasing God (Romans 8:8)

AND people of the sin nature cannot understand spiritual things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14)

SO God's regeneration of men in the renewing by the Holy Spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus 3:5)

AND by the act of God, the old things passed away while the new creature has come (2 Corinthians 5:17)

AND the "old things", the first and default nature, is carnal/darkness/wicked/evil/dead/natural - in/by/of/for man

BUT the "new things", the God imparted nature, is Spirit/Light/righteous/good/life/eternal - in/by/of/for Christ

SO the "new creature" is made holy by the Holy God named Jesus Christ

AND the "new creature" is in Christ, and only the "new creature", we born again by God, are in Christ

AND in Christ all will be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22)

God is just (Deuteronomy 32:4).

To all of this I would only point out what it says in Romans 5:1-2:

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

justbyfaith · May 16, 2020

Kermos said:
Genesis 3:6 does not express choice for it is not written.

The specific word "choice" does not need to be in the text for Eve's action to be the result of a choice.

Sometimes the proper meaning can be established when you read between the lines.

101G · May 16, 2020

Well lets settle this onece and for all. "Desire" is just another word for free will. I had already look up the word, and the finding can be found here at the word Hippo Dictionary, and here's the link. https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/free_will.html#C0-1

see I already knew what the word ment, it's intresting how people go through hoop to try and defend their position. when they could have just look up the word.

PICJAG.

Rocky Wiley · May 16, 2020

Kermos said:
Pointing out "desire" is astute. It's scripture in the creation account.

When we look at the word "desire", it represents a state of being". Here are three states of desire:
1) attraction (desirous)
2) unattraction (undesirous)
3) indifference (could be classified as undesirous)

When we look at the Hebrew word chamad (Strong's Hebrew: 2530. חָמַד (chamad) -- to desire, take pleasure in), we find a variety of acceptable English words for translation, such as (these are all occurrences of chamad conjugations in the concordance for the NASB): attracted (1), covet (6), coveted (1), delight (1), desirable (2), desire (1), desired (2), desires (2), pleasing (1), precious (2), precious things (1), took great delight (1).

The English word "covet" has a special application in Genesis 3:6, yet "desire" still conveys synonymous meaning.

IMPORTANT POINT: God reserved the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree was prohibited to man for food - reserved from man by Creator God.

The tree was desirable for food by Eve.

It can also be written as: the tree was covetable for food by Eve.

The desire, the coveting, was for the tree that did not belong to Eve nor Adam for food, please recall the IMPORTANT POINT.

Now, bringing this all together, God did generously provide attributes for man as well as withhold attributes from man

BUT the Word of God expressed man's "act" which was to eat the fruit of the tree (Genesis 3:6, the second portion)

WHILE simultaneously the Word is silent about man's "will" in the Creation account

YET Scripture records man's "lust" with

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food,
and that it was a delight to the eyes,
and that the tree was desirable to make [one] wise (Genesis 3:6, the first portion)

AND in Genesis 3:6, the first portion precedes the second portion

THUS the "lust" precedes the "act"

AND the "act" precedes the punishment (Genesis 3:8-24)

THEREFORE the "lust" precedes the punishment

SO the "lust" occurred in man when man's state was between being created and the punishment, that is pre-punishment

Desire does not equal "choice" nor "free will".

Covet does not equal "choice" nor "free will".

The coveting preceds the action.

The Apostle Paul wrote about coveting with "I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COVET.' But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin [is] dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good" (Romans 7:7-12).

Here is the full verse of Genesis 3:6

"When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make [one] wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6).

Notice, the passaged does not say "she chose to take from its fruit and chose to eat"; furthermore, the passage does not state "he chose to eat" at the end fo the verse.

There is a word for "choose" in Hebrew, but that word does not occur here in this passage.

Genesis 3:6 expresses lust.

Genesis 3:6 does not express choice for it is not written.

Genesis 3:6 expresses action for it is written.

Adam was not imparted with the attribute of free will.

Rocky Wiley · May 16, 2020

Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
naw-shaw'
A primitive root; to lead astray, that is, (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce: - beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.
Eve was seduced by the devil, how else is Cain is the child of the devil.
1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

justbyfaith · May 16, 2020

Rocky Wiley said:
how else is Cain is the child of the devil.

Simply, because he was not regenerated and/or born again of the Holy Spirit.

Enoch111 · May 16, 2020

Kermos said:
No place, and I mean NO PLACE, does scripture state tha Adam CHOSE to disobey

Actions speak louder than words. Or is this the first time you have heard that?

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (Gen 3:6)

GISMYS_7 · May 16, 2020

LOL==So who do you think forced Adam to not obey God???

Enoch111 · May 16, 2020

GISMYS_7 said:
LOL==So who do you think forced Adam to not obey God???

This is another ridiculous thread.

DNB · May 16, 2020

Rocky Wiley said:
Your belief does not let you explain the different races without evolution?

There is a large contingency of Christians who accept evolution within species. For all creatures were formed after their kind.

DNB · May 16, 2020

Kermos said:
The Word of God says "from the beginning of creation, [God] made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate." (Mark 10:6-9).

Lore Jesus included Adam and Eve as being from the beginning.

Adam was not imparted with free will, period.

Either way, I was being extremely facetious, implying how absurd and incompetent your exegesis was.
You took the word 'for' to mean an established fact, when anyone with just partial sense, understands that the contextual implications define the word to be referring to the imminency of the consequence, not the violation. But, if that weren't bad enough, the entire over-arching principle of the Bible, reveals man's autonomy. And, if that weren't bad enough, eating of the fruit itself endowed them with an undeniable deified regard for themselves. Being more than ever self-determining beings, invariably much to their detriment.
This thread has exposed how radically unsound and haphazard your understanding of Scripture is Kermos. If this is indicative of your theology in general, then you appear to be extremely unreliable as an exegete.

justbyfaith · May 16, 2020

DNB said:
Either way, I was being extremely facetious, implying how absurd and incompetent your exegesis was.
You took the word 'for' to mean an established fact, when anyone with just partial sense, understands that the contextual implications define the word to be referring to the imminency of the consequence, not the violation. But, if that weren't bad enough, the entire over-arching principle of the Bible, reveals man's autonomy. And, if that weren't bad enough, eating of the fruit itself endowed them with an undeniable deified regard for themselves. Being more than ever self-determining beings, much to their invariable detriment.
This thread has exposed how radically unsound and haphazard your understanding of Scripture is Kermos. If this is indicative of your theology in general, then you appear to be extremely unreliable as an exegete.

This coming from you, I would say that Kermos' exegetes may indeed have some validity; while I may not agree with his premise in this particular thread.

BARNEY BRIGHT · May 17, 2020

Kermos said:
Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

The Word of God indicates no based upon both scriptural text and context.

The following is carefully presented proof establishing Adam was formed with intent not endowed with free will.

God issued prophecy about man eating the fruit (Genesis 2:17)
AT the time God commanded the man, Adam, not to eat of the tree
AND the consequence of disobedience is declared - that is that death of the man would result in eating from the tree
YET a command does not convey ability (see also God's Commands Distinguised From Man's Ability)
BUT the language contains a prophetic construct indicating assurance of occurrence - "for in the day that you eat" - the "for" is promissory
NOT a conditional logic construct such as "if in the day that you eat"
IN fact, the English word "for" is translated from the Hebrew word כִּ֗י (ki)
AND the Hebrew word כִּ֗י (ki) contains the meanings of these English words "that", "for", "when" (Strong's Hebrew: 3588. כִּ֗י (ki) -- that, for, when)
THEREFORE the word "when" fits where the word "for" resides in Genesis 2:17
THUS the phrase "when in the day that you eat" is an accurate translation for Genesis 2:17
SO this confirms the promissory nature, the prophecy of man eating the fruit, with the word "for"/"when" in Genesis 2:17
AND this imposes contextual certainty indicating God's foreknowledge over the matter described in Genesis 2:17
SO there is no free will indicated for Adam
AND the firm fact is established
THAT God reigns in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)

Attributes/Characteristics Compared And Contrasted

Examining attribute as relating to the purported facility of free will in Adam
WITH a targeted result of logical deductive reasoning leveraging compare and contrast of attributes/facilities
SINCE Adam was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26)
THEN some persons of the creation (creatures) argue that specific facility was given to Adam
IN particular God willpowering purported free will into man during the creation of Adam
THEN Adam could not have used free will to perform evil against God
BECAUSE God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4)
THEREFORE it follows that Man could not use free will in order to perform evil against God

The logical extension of free will on this basis results in man possessing expanded facilities beyond God's facilities

God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature

Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

Scripture does not include the mention of endowing Adam with free will

Man's free will is a precept of man (Matthew 15:9)

Adam as part of God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world
SINCE God saw creation was very good on the 6th Day (Genesis 1:31)
AND God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind is good (Ephesians 1:1-14,Ephesians 2:13)
THEN a free will Adam could not have been roaming the Garden of Eden with the ability to choose to obey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17)
SINCE the only command carrying a punishment was the prohibition upon Adam against eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
THUS a free will Adam could have disrupted God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind
SO God could not conclude with certainty by declaring everything was good on the sixth day with a free will Adam in control roaming the Garden of Eden
THEREFORE it follows that Adam could not be endowed with the attribute of free will

The timeline of Adam knowing good and evil
BEFORE Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
THEN Adam and Eve knew not good and evil
AFTER Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
THEN Adam and Eve knew good and evil
FOR the delineation is clarified when God said "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22)
YET based on the Word of God saying "has become" recorded in Genesis 3:22
THEN Adam did not know good and evil before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
SO Adam did not know good and evil when God issued the command "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die!" (Genesis 2:17)
THEREFORE at the time of eating, Adam listened and followed the last that he heard about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
WHICH Adam heard from Eve
FOR God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17)
SO Adam listened to Eve and Adam ate from the tree prior to knowing good and evil
AND a person does good by obeying God; on the other hand, a person does evil by disobeying God
SO free will choosing of good or choosing of evil is not the context
AND action is the context
SINCE good and evil are not known to Adam prior to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
THEREFORE it follows that Adam was not endowed with the attribute of free will

The attribute of "joining" - marriage

Lord Jesus says a topically very profound statement of "from the beginning of creation, [God] made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate." (Mark 10:6-9)

"God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Christ and the Bride of Christ

"God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to marriage between "male and female" (creatures both)

"God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Adam and Eve, the man and the woman

God does the joining, while, on the other hand, man and woman are only the joyful recipients

The facility of "joining" is not attributed to man and/or woman

The facility of "joining" is attributed to God

For expanded topic coverage, please see this integral essay Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor (not a ChristianityBoard.com link),

If anyone venture a reply to this thread, I encourage diligent care for it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

May the Lord abound mercy and understanding and strength and grace in we His own for the Day approaches rapidly!

Here we go again, people trying to prove that God commanded Adam to do something that was impossible for him to obey and that sin and death was part of God's purpose. That sin and death originates from God, but sin and death causes chaos and chaos didn't originate from God purpose. If sin and death was part of God purpose, why would he punish any man for following that purpose. The scriptures are many that shows God punishing those who sin, but according to you God punishes people for not being able to obey his commands although mankind according to you doesn't have free will to be able to choose to obey his commands. That means it's impossible to choose to live by faith because of a person's love for God because according to you mankind is just a bunch of programmed robots going through life living that life God has programmed each human to live.

I believe all this to be nonsense

justbyfaith · May 17, 2020

Not saying I'm making a point here. But I thought I would bring up a specific scripture.

Pro 16:4, The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Kermos · May 19, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Yes, through giving that command.

I beg to differ.

Then, you defy linguistics and logic because a command does not convey ability. A command is a command. Let me remind you since you cut out so much of the Word of God.

At the time of Matthew 14:28-29, Peter had faith for Jesus said "You of little faith" (Matthew 14:31).

Faith/belief is the work of God for Lord Jesus says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Peter could walk on water because God is already there with Peter, and the Word of God says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

A person ONLY has the ability to bear good fruit when the Spirit of God is with the person for it is written "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

Behold, his deeds and God "wrought".

It is God that give the ability to obey a command.

A command does not convey ability.

To all of this I would only point out what it says in Romans 5:1-2:

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 5:1-2 is true! Now, let us behold the source of the "faith"/"belief" mentioned in Romans 5:1-2.

Lord Jesus says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Behold, to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is a work of God; therefore, God is already here with us believers being referred to by the Apostle Paul in Romans 5:1-2. Not of man, that no one should boast of choosing God (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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