Hebrews 10:26-31

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marks

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It is the terminology of sound doctrine

Personally, when the terminology is in the Bible, I prefer to stay with that. Non-Biblical terminology has a tendency to take on shades of meaning that aren't included in the Bible. I'n not saying all do, but it happens.

Not to mention, I find a distinct benefit in thinking of things the way the Bible talks about them.

Much love!
 

marks

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Is this to say that you have hidden knowledge that you believe makes you an elite Christian?
Someone else putting words in my mouth?

In a word, No.

Do you believe there is such a thing as an "elite Christian"?

Much love!
 

marks

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It may not be a word that is found in the Bible, but the concept is there.
An example, "Positional Righteousness", people like that terminology, but I don't find in the Bible, do you?

And I find that it speaks of something very different than what I do find in the Bible.

Much love!
 

Tong2020

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The Holy Spirit draws a man without bringing him all the way into the kingdom.

The Holy Spirit enables that man to make a choice either for or against Christ, in the drawing.
The question remains, how does the man, rendered dead, respond positively?

Is the question unclear? If so, tell me what is not clear so I could clear it up for you.

Tong
R1560
 

Ferris Bueller

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This is how.

If you remain in His word, you ARE a true disciple. So what He is saying here, is true disciples remain.

It's like in Hebrews, I forget the reference, You have become a partaker of Christ if you continue firm in your faith to the end. Same word "firm" there, not certain of your faith, but unmoved in your faith. The part I want to highlight is the Perfect Tense of 'have become', showing this is something that happens and remains done.

You have become a partaker of Christ, a once for all thing, if you continue in your faith. If you do not continue in your faith, then you did not become a partaker of Christ. The "continuance of faith" is not what determines whether you will partake of Christ, rather, it shows whether you did or did not actually become a partaker in Christ.

Much love!
1 Timothy 1:5-6
...a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith. 6Some have strayed from these ways and turned aside to empty talk.

Did someone forget to tell Paul it's impossible to stray from a sincere faith?
 

Ferris Bueller

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The question remains, how does the man, rendered dead, respond positively?
I don't think his answer will be different than mine. By God's grace is a man able to respond with trust (if he wants to) to the testimony of the Holy Spirit. Inherent in the testimony of the Holy Spirit is the faith, the surety, of the message being spoken. Some choose to retain that message they now know to be true in believing. Most do not and reject what they know to be true in willful unbelief.
 

marks

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1 Timothy 1:5-6
...a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith. 6Some have strayed from these ways and turned aside to empty talk.

Did someone forget to tell Paul it's impossible to stray from a sincere faith?
You are not addressing the Scriptures I'm posting, and exegeting, and are instead trying to negate them by other Scriptures. You would benefit more, I think, from examining the passages I post, and seeing if what I say about them is true.

In this passage, straying from the ways of a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith, you apparently equate with the born again dying again. But that's not what it says.

If you fall from grace into works, even into this idea that YOU have to keep your faith real to stay saved, this is the same thing as straying from your faith.

Falling into living according to what you see.

There is no benefit to reading into a passage something it doesn't actually say.

Much love!
 

marks

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1 Timothy 1:5-6
...a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith. 6Some have strayed from these ways and turned aside to empty talk.

Did someone forget to tell Paul it's impossible to stray from a sincere faith?
So, let's come back to . . .

It's like in Hebrews, I forget the reference, You have become a partaker of Christ if you continue firm in your faith to the end. Same word "firm" there, not certain of your faith, but unmoved in your faith. The part I want to highlight is the Perfect Tense of 'have become', showing this is something that happens and remains done.

You have become a partaker of Christ, a once for all thing, if you continue in your faith. If you do not continue in your faith, then you did not become a partaker of Christ. The "continuance of faith" is not what determines whether you will partake of Christ, rather, it shows whether you did or did not actually become a partaker in Christ.

Much love!
 

Ferris Bueller

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You are not addressing the Scriptures I'm posting, and exegeting, and are instead trying to negate them by other Scriptures. You would benefit more, I think, from examining the passages I post, and seeing if what I say about them is true.

In this passage, straying from the ways of a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith, you apparently equate with the born again dying again. But that's not what it says.

If you fall from grace into works, even into this idea that YOU have to keep your faith real to stay saved, this is the same thing as straying from your faith.

Falling into living according to what you see.

There is no benefit to reading into a passage something it doesn't actually say.

Much love!
See, I told you it's a waste of time to discuss something that doesn't matter to salvation anyway.
 

justbyfaith

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The question remains, how does the man, rendered dead, respond positively?

The Holy Spirit enables him to respond without making him born again of the Holy Spirit.

That comes when the man responds positively to the message of the gospel as the Holy Spirit draws him.
 
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marks

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See, I told you it's a waste of time to discuss something that doesn't matter to salvation anyway.
?

You seem to have an aversion to addressing the material.

Things that make you go, Hmmmmm.

Since you see this a waste time, OK. I'm moving on.

Much love!
 
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marks

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The Holy Spirit enables him to respond without making him born again of the Holy Spirit.

That comes when the man responds positively to the message of the gospel as the Holy Spirit draws him.
I think the answer to this is in Titus, "the grace of God unto salvation has appeared to all men . . ."

God give a grace to enable us to make an actual choice whether we want to believe Him or not.

Much love!
 

Ferris Bueller

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Since you see this a waste time, OK. I'm moving on.
Good plan. It's a meaningless argument. You'll put your scriptures up against mine and nothing will be resolved. But what we do agree on and what actually matters is that only those who endure in faith to the very end will be saved when Jesus comes back. That's the thing the church needs to focus on. If a person wants to believe that's a given and will happen automatically by virtue of being a genuine believer, then good. And if a person wants to believe they chose whether or not to believe to the very end, that's good too. As long as we all understand the necessity to keep believing and encourage each other in that all will be good.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Have you studied Gnosticism? What would you describe as the fundamental beliefs?

Much love!
I would summarize it as 'since the flesh counts for nothing (John 6:63) you can indulge it all you want and doing that will have no bearing whatsoever on your spirit and salvation'.
 

marks

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But what we do agree on and what actually matters is that only those who endure in faith to the very end will be saved when Jesus comes back.
Just keeping the record straight, this is AGAIN you putting words into my mouth. Hardly an honest discussion tactic, now is it? I suppose this isn't willful then.

Much love!

Over and out.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Just keeping the record straight, this is AGAIN you putting words into my mouth. Hardly an honest discussion tactic, now is it? I suppose this isn't willful then.

Much love!

Over and out.
I'm confident that you said you believe the genuine believer will without doubt believe to the very end. Bye, bye.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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I pray that the Lord will abundantly bless you and show you His kindness...

Because it is His kindness that leads us to repentance; and this is something that you severely need...


God has already showed me his Kindness....He showed me how to Rest in the Gospel Of Grace....not to “ sweat it out “ in a so-called gospel Of “Lucky Repentance”
Your god is too small....
 

Ferris Bueller

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God has already showed me his Kindness....He showed me how to Rest in the Gospel Of Grace....
Willfully sinning is not resting in the gospel of grace. God's kindness is not defined as letting you live in sin in the name of grace. Every moment you are in sin you are out of God's rest. And if you are willfully sinning you're treading on the ground of outright rejecting God's rest. And God will banish you there if you do it long enough.

God's rest is symbolized by Israel's rest from his enemies round about him and the slavery he once was in. For me and you that translates into rest from our enemy 'sin'. You can't sin and be at rest in God at the same time.
 
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