Looking for help with Acts 21

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Acts 21:20-26

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, (so we see that we are dismissed from all of those things) we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

Okay.

1. What are the purification rites?
2. Can the underline portion be cross-referenced anywhere?
3. Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?

Seems like these are purification things for us.

Click to expand...

Sorry FYD, it's late over here so I won't look up the specifics, but, I get the impression that you're well versed in the Bible, so you know what the Levitical purification rites are, no?
Are they not when an Israelite has defiled themselves, via touching a dead body, menstruation, sexual impurities, etc.., the were obligated by the Law to undergo a ritual that cleansed them. I forget what the requirements were, a sacrifice offering, 7 days in isolation, water purification, ...?

And, as far as cross-referencing the underlined, you know that the Jerusalem council AD50 had taken place after Paul & Barnabas' 1st missionary journey. That Peter, Paul, then finally James, spoke on how to deal with new Gentile converts, who were being criticized by the Jewish Christians for their lack of adherence to the law (circumcision primarily). The leaders that were speaking with Paul in Acts 21, are alluding back to Acts 15 where they made that decision. Which, if I'm not mistaken, are Mosaic precepts (cross reference), but obviously not in its entirety, but still, God inspired injunctions (sound decision on the Apostle's part).

I was going to bring that up to my friend a while back - is eating meat with blood in it offensive to God (Genesis 9:4, Deuteronomy 12:16, Leviticus 17:11). Paul stated that even eating meat that was sacrificed idols was not sinful, as a wise Christian understands the impotency of such a dedication, unless it lead someone astray (1 Corinthians 10:19-20). Point is, if that was not offensive, I question if eating meat with blood is more egregious? In my feeble mind i would say that it's not, but, I also would've said that about the Sabbath day, had it not been a capital crime to defy it.

Sorry, FYD, like I said, it's late here, and I don't think that I even came close to answering any of your questions.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Acts 21:20-26

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, (so we see that we are dismissed from all of those things) we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

Okay.

1. What are the purification rites?
2. Can the underline portion be cross-referenced anywhere?
3. Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?

Seems like these are purification things for us.

Click to expand...

Some of the Old Testament rules and regulations (laws) were to protect people from disease and other problems. Circumcision is similar and a person that is uncircumcised might get infections easier. They were to cook meat which was not always the case back then, and we now know that not cooking meat can be disastrous to a person. Rare steak I like if it's not too rare. But, as I'm sure you know, it is important to cook the meat long enough to kill any bacteria that might be living in it.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

1. What are the purification rites?
2. Can the underline portion be cross-referenced anywhere?
3. Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?

Click to expand...

1) These particular purification rites were in connection with a vow - probably a Nazirite vow (Numbers 6:1-21). (Paul himself had undertaken a Nazirite vow a few years earlier - see Acts 18:18) Christianity had not yet separated from Judaism, and Jewish Christians were still attending synagogue where possible (e.g. Acts 18:24-26) and using the Law to express their faith in Jesus.
2) Acts 15:23-29
3) In order to "abstain from blood" we'd have to not just avoid rare meat but eat only kosher meat that's been slaughtered in a specific manner. However, the decree of the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) is usually considered not as binding on all Christians for all time but as advice to Gentile believers on how to fellowship with (and especially eat with) Jews in the same congregation.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Acts 21:20-26

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, (so we see that we are dismissed from all of those things) we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

Okay.

1. What are the purification rites?
2. Can the underline portion be cross-referenced anywhere?
3. Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?

Seems like these are purification things for us.

Click to expand...

Yeh, I went through a week of not eating meat when I was sixteen, because I read these meat verses and wondered the same. Yeh, didn't last long. Three hogs were killed and there was a lot of bacon. LOL! Here is something to consider:


"I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven."
Acts 11:5‭-‬10 KJV

This was symbolic of a meeting with a Gentile believer, that it was okay for Peter to meet with him. But I think this hints to meat being made clean too.

I am unsure of what purification rights are, what those are, but I know Christ is who purifies us now, through His blood.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Acts 21:20-26

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, (so we see that we are dismissed from all of those things) we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

Okay.

1. What are the purification rites?
2. Can the underline portion be cross-referenced anywhere?
3. Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?

Seems like these are purification things for us.

Click to expand...

The way I understand it is that those instructions would purify the gentiles enough for them to have fellowship with the Jews who were entering the Temple.

*Of, course, we who believe are the living stones of the Temple today!

Tone said:

The way I understand it is that those instructions would purify the gentiles enough for them to have fellowship with the Jews who were entering the Temple.

*Of, course, we who believe are the living stones of the Temple today!

Click to expand...

So how much more pure should we be...?

...uh oh...

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Acts 21:20-26

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, (so we see that we are dismissed from all of those things) we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

Okay.

1. What are the purification rites?
2. Can the underline portion be cross-referenced anywhere?
3. Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?

Seems like these are purification things for us.

Click to expand...

Fluffy,
Those who greeted Paul were reminding Paul of the letter James wrote to the Gentile believers, which is recorded in Acts 15. The purpose of the letter was to affirm Paul's teaching that the Gentiles are not obligated to keep Moses. At the same time, James asks the Gentiles to abstain from various Gentile customs and practices, which he knows will offend their Jewish brothers and sisters. Eating food sacrificed to idols, eating blood, eating the meat of strangled animals are all things that Gentiles did regularly, which were offensive to the Jews.

Notice that all of these things, except one, involve food. I don't imagine that the Gentiles were eating "road kill" or anything like that. I imagine that all of these food items were available for sale a the local meat market. James was telling Gentile believers something like this, "when you go to the meet market, don't buy the meat sacrificed to an idol. Don't buy the meat that hasn't had the blood drained out first. Don't buy the meat that came from strangled animals. That is, only eat meat that comes directly from a butcher, freshly killed that day, properly drained, and not used in a religious ceremony.

What about sexual immorality?

Well, the Greek word is actually πορνείας [porneias], which connotes a very wide range of sexual practices including
Which of the connotations above seem most closely associated with eating meat? I think we can safely say that James disapproves of all forms of pornea, but since James is talking about offensive customs, I think he is focused on idol worship and the practice of eating the meat offered to an idol.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Acts 21:20-26

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, (so we see that we are dismissed from all of those things) we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

Okay.

1. What are the purification rites?
2. Can the underline portion be cross-referenced anywhere?
3. Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?

Seems like these are purification things for us.

Click to expand...

Overall meaning of the verses...."playing along to get along with James"....which ended up biting him in the tail. Acts 21:27-40
Paul's ministry was continually dogged by what was / is called Judaizers ie. Jews who wanted the Gentile Christians to follow the laws and customs of Moses. This chapter is basically an event / altercation between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians.

Your underlined
our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

Paul did in fact preach that Gentile Christians--which is us--are not under the Law and do not need to follow Jewish customs, as per the First Ecumenical Christian Council in Jerusalem, of which your underlined references. Acts chapter 15.

Jewish purification rites---are ritualistic. Judaism is described by scholars as a this world religion. In other words it is very physical. When they thought of purification it mostly meant their bodies...had nothing to do with sin because the Jews had no process to remove sin. They washed their hands and they had ritualistic baths that a line of people could walk into from one side and out of the other. It was not a scrub a dub bath...no soap...its about getting wet.

You asked...
Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?
lol No, eat more steaks and praise the Lord! Eat beef, pork, birds, and fish...Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.

And as an additional comment on the food and drink thing from Christ's perspective...Matthew 15:11 It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”

And then the revelation of Peter...Act 10:13-16 A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Acts 21:20-26

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, (so we see that we are dismissed from all of those things) we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

Okay.

1. What are the purification rites?
2. Can the underline portion be cross-referenced anywhere?
3. Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?

Seems like these are purification things for us.

Click to expand...

I think I have been to that church

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Acts 21:20-26

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, (so we see that we are dismissed from all of those things) we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

Okay.

1. What are the purification rites?
2. Can the underline portion be cross-referenced anywhere?
3. Does this mean we should be staying away from medium rare steaks? What's your thoughts?

Seems like these are purification things for us.

Click to expand...

It's been a long time since I've explained this, hope I'm up to the challenge, lol.

Paul said in his epistles, to the Jew I am an Jew, to the Gentile I am a Gentile, that I might win some to Christ.

Paul was caught between the Jews who had rejected Christ, (they held to the Law of Moses), and the Gentiles who he was teaching Christ.

The scripture you have posted is one of those many, many times. In rejecting Christ they had also rejected the New Covenant of Christ that Paul taught. Let me show you some cross reference and try to explain.

Colossians 2:16-17
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

The point Paul is making here is that the Law of Moses was intended to point to Christ (the shadow of things to come), the Jews who rejected Christ did not see this. They fought against Paul everywhere he went trying to kill him because, according to them, he was teaching against the Law of Moses, but he wasn't.

Paul was teaching the truth, Christ had come and fulfilled the Law, now the New Covenant was here and the Law was no longer our school master to lead us to Christ. Galatians 3:24.

If you notice in Colossians 2:16, Paul tells us that now, under the New Covenant, the observing of the things of the Law are no longer in force. Including all the food laws you have questioned.

Hope this helps!

DNB said:

And, as far as cross-referencing the underlined, you know that the Jerusalem council AD50 had taken place after Paul & Barnabas' 1st missionary journey. That Peter, Paul, then finally James, spoke on how to deal with new Gentile converts, who were being criticized by the Jewish Christians for their lack of adherence to the law (circumcision primarily). The leaders that were speaking with Paul in Acts 21, are alluding back to Acts 15 where they made that decision. Which, if I'm not mistaken, are Mosaic precepts (cross reference), but obviously not in its entirety, but still, God inspired injunctions (sound decision on the Apostle's part).

Click to expand...

CadyandZoe said:

Those who greeted Paul were reminding Paul of the letter James wrote to the Gentile believers, which is recorded in Acts 15. The purpose of the letter was to affirm Paul's teaching that the Gentiles are not obligated to keep Moses. At the same time, James asks the Gentiles to abstain from various Gentile customs and practices, which he knows will offend their Jewish brothers and sisters. Eating food sacrificed to idols, eating blood, eating the meat of strangled animals are all things that Gentiles did regularly, which were offensive to the Jews.

Click to expand...

Correct and correct. These regulations were not for salvation or even for health. They were ordinances they wanted the Gentile believers following because the Jewish Christians found them particularly offensive, and if there was going to be any peace, they would have to stop practicing them or there would be constant strife and argument. In fact, these questions would keep coming up well into the next two decades. Paul addressed meats sacrificed to idols extensively in 1 Corinthians, and the Lord Himself addressed it in the Book of Revelations.

CadyandZoe said:

What about sexual immorality?

Well, the Greek word is actually πορνείας [porneias], which connotes a very wide range of sexual practices including
1) illicit sexual intercourse 1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. 1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18 1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mr 10:11,12 2) metaph. the worship of idols 2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols.

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I take it primarily as a reference to adultery, which was more acceptable in Gentile society.