TRUTH

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Pearl

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The Gospel and the New Testament does not change.
The question is, does the Living Word of God still teach us things? Did God have other things to teach us?

Of course it does. It teaches us the same things it's always been teaching Christians. As you say it is Living. You can know passages and have read them repeatedly and then - wham - something fresh jumps off the page, something you had not seen or considered before.

Also God can teach us important lessons through nature, or a book, or a song or anything really.

But the truth doesn't change. Jesus doesn't change. And he is the Way, the Truth and the Life. God doesn't change, the Holy Spirit doesn't change and God's way of doing things is still best.
 

Pearl

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Polygamy....the ownership of women.
In the Gospels when Christ was talking to people other than His own Apostles....most of the time He (a Jew) was talking to Jews about Judaism. You can count that up yourself. Although the Jews practiced polygamy for a another 1000 years after the biblical era, Christ and the Apostles were not going to bring up the topic of polygamy or denounce it, because it would have completely alienated the Jews. Now, Paul has to address it because some Jewish converts to Christianity had multiple wives, so he stipulate that in order to be a deacon you had to be the husband of one wife.

Now this issue did not come up with most Pagan converts (Gentiles) because most Pagan did not practice polygamy. Their issues with the Pagans was that they could not have casual sex.

So after the biblical era Christianity took a definitive stand against polygamy. So this was a moral improvement.
I wish you would start a new thread to discuss this stuff. My OP was about the unchangeableness of Jesus and you have turned it into a whole different thing.
 

Grailhunter

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Consensual marriages.
The culture and customs of the biblical era was for the fathers to choose or negotiate who their daughters would marry. This is occurring in the Old and New Testament. Keep in mind that "dating" does not become a custom until the early 1900's ad. Courting occurs around the middle ages and it is supervised. The Christian requirement for the female to consent to marriage did not occur until well after the first millennium. So this constitutes an improvement of Christian morals and customs.
 

Grailhunter

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Wedding ceremonies.
No where in the Bible is there a requirement for weddings.
The Hebrews-Jews took their wives...the union was the consummation of the marriage and in some states and countries it is still the consummation of the marriage. The Jewish language did not even have a word for wed or wedding. And again in the New Testament there is no requirement for a wedding ceremony.

Now when Paul took the ministry to the Pagans (Gentiles) a large part of them did have wedding customs. And since the majority of Christians eventually were Gentiles...they had all kinds of wedding customs. Now we do not know how many of them were actually doing weddings. But we do know that it becomes more and more popular as time goes on. Still the Christian requirement for weddings actually migrates in stages....Christian leaders start talking about the need and benefits of having the clergy present to bless the marriage around the 1200's. Then on the legal side it does not become law until 1753 ad.

Now you see some Christians complain about the Pagan rituals imbedded in Christian marriages. But there is a reason for that, weddings were modeled after Pagan weddings...specifically Roman weddings, but also Christians in different regions had customs that were incorporated into Christian weddings.

So we are all going to agree that weddings are a good thing and how it came about, I believe was God driven.
 
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Grailhunter

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Concubinage
Again the Bible (the New Testament) does not bring up the topic of concubinage.
The Jews still practiced it and it continued on with Christians for sometime.
It is a tad complicated.
Augustine and Jerome are the only early Christian leaders that I can find that spoke of it and denounced concubinage.
But there were clergy that were practicing concubinage early in middle ages for various reasons. Mostly because the Church was not allowing them to marry...(We can get into how many ways the celibate requirement has dogged the Catholic Church but that is another topic.) Eventually the Church moved to stop concubinage between the 14th and 15th century.
Either way this is something that was not denounced in the Bible but Christianity came to know was wrong.
Then again for those people that like to mix Judaism with Christianity....there is a Christian man down the road that has a concubine.
 
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Enoch111

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I believe in the Living Word of God.
The living Word is an unchanging Word. Otherwise it could not be called the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God.

The greatest damage done to Christianity has been by the so-called scholars and critics, who have been messing with the Bible since about 1850. And today we have a report of a professor of divinity tweeting that evangelical Christianity is the greatest threat to humanity! He then deleted this stupid tweet, but was he fired? Not likely.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Actually Pearl, if the thread is open to friendly discussion, I don't really agree with the guy's statements either, though they are obviously well-intended. I do agree that it should not succumb to modern public opinion (which I believe is his intended point), but what has happened in Christianity can be highlighted by the following periods (skipping thru numerous finer details):

1. A powerful beginning where the foundation was properly laid, where examples of walking in the true faith were established for the church, and where the core of Christian doctrine was laid down.

2. A regression into numerous errors and a weakening of the church doctrinally and spiritually, that commenced from around 250 A.D. all the way up to the time of the Reformation.

3. A change back in the right direction when Protestantism took hold in the 1500 and 1600s.

4. A further change, i.e. progression in the right direction when the Pentecostal revival took place in the early 1900s.

5. Since that time Christianity has again somewhat regressed, primarily because much of what Pentecostalism was originally has been watered down and corrupted.

6. The Great Humiliation. This is likely coming in the next 20-25 years, and it will cause most of those who name the name of Christ to flee the battlefield and cast aside their faith. Even in America, churches which still teach the true word of God will become rare in the extreme.

7. The Outpouring. Those who remain faithful even during the darkest of times will eventually have the Spirit of God poured out upon them in greater measure than was even experienced by the early church, and they will go forth in works of power to build the true church of the Lord Jesus Christ upon the ruins of the old. Once this foundation is laid, the end-time harvest will begin.

This last church will, and there is no better word for this which is why I disagree with the man's quotes, progress in every sense of the word: Biblically, spiritually, doctrinally, supernaturally, morally. She will finally become everything God intended the church to be when it was formed in New Testament times.

To say Christianity does not "progress" is to say it cannot regress, and this has clearly not been the case. But just as it can regress it can also progress, and I do not take the term as a dirty word when referring to the church. If we are not growing we are regressing, so I equate spiritual progress with spiritual growth, and it is something we must have if we will ever attain to all the Lord has for us.
 
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amigo de christo

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One thing i notice is that many can claim the truth that JESUS never changes .
And yet if men come preaching a jesus contrary to the biblical ONE , they seem to sit and heed these .
But i warn out of love and remind us , JESUS DONT CHANGE . THUS if anyone comes preaching
a jesus that is not compatible to the biblical one , YA BETTER RUN .
Which means , LEARN those bibles well . Learn that JESUS well .
 
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Grailhunter

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The social and religious status of women.

Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

1st Corinthians 11:1-11
1 Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ. 2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he (that man) is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.

1st Timothy 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

1st Corinthians 14:34-35
Women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. And if they desire to learn anything let them ask their own husbands at home for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only? If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.

1st Timothy 2:15
But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Romans 16:1-2
I commend unto you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church that is at Cenchreae: that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and that you help her in whatever matter she may have need of you; for she herself has also been a helper of many, and of myself as well.

People interpret these verses in different ways. These verses are very much scrutinized in college. Some try to soften them....kind of explaining them away....Some interpret them that a man...a husband should treat his property with loving kindness.

The problem is that if you go back to the Greek text....this is how it is written, you really cannot soften it.

For example;
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church,
the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.
The use of the words "is" and "as" means a preciseness that more than suggests that the husband is the woman's god. As in the relationship that a man has with Christ "is" the same as a woman has with her husband.
And combined with the verses on silence and the other verses, suggest that the husband is the go between, between the woman and Christ. That she does not have an actual direct relationship with Christ. That women receive salvation a different way then men. ie Saved through bearing of children. There is so much Jew here. In the Jewish culture a woman's inclusion into the Old Covenant with God was not by a circumcision, they were included in the Covenant by having children.

Like I said people interpret these scriptures different ways....and some ignore them. But if you are going to be honest you cannot ignore them any more than what Christ said, Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

These are clear and concise scriptures that should not be ignored. But as usual it is important to consider the context of them.
On one side of the coin, can you really blame someone for taking this as it is written? I try not to blame them. And I try and I try! But if you have a desire to be cruel, these are the type of scriptures that you have your microscope set to look for. Particularly if you believe in mixing Judaism with Christianity. Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you shall deliver children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” So the Bible says it and religious beliefs have been formed with much less. They are only so guilty for taking it and using to to rule over their wives.

It is not just my opinion that what we are seeing here is Paul struggling with his Jewish nature. His Jewish education, the Jewish culture and traditions.
1st Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression....
It is hard to recover from having the fall of mankind blamed on you.

His strong connection to his Jewish nature shows through here. He references "the law " and says "he (man) is the image and glory of God" then he puts the hammer down.... the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. Jewish...referencing the Mosaic Laws. It is all a reflection of Judaism and the Jewish culture.

It is something that you have to decide for yourself. As far as I am concerned, I am not going to hate everyone to be a Christian and I consider women equal members in marriage, in Christ...in the Church...and in society.

But I cannot say that it was God that taught Christians a better way on this....by the middle ages the Catholic Church was chopping women's bodies up. This one, society had to teach us and that is a shame. You have to make your own decision on this.
 
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Grailhunter

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I wish you would start a new thread to discuss this stuff. My OP was about the unchangeableness of Jesus and you have turned it into a whole different thing.
Pearl, this is what you posted....Christianity does not progress with the times....if it did it is a false religion. I disagree on both counts.

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If your intent was to start a thread about the unchangeableness of Jesus....don't you think you would need to get a little more specific?....Is anybody saying that Jesus is a different person?
 
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Grailhunter

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The living Word is an unchanging Word. Otherwise it could not be called the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God.

The greatest damage done to Christianity has been by the so-called scholars and critics, who have been messing with the Bible since about 1850. And today we have a report of a professor of divinity tweeting that evangelical Christianity is the greatest threat to humanity! He then deleted this stupid tweet, but was he fired? Not likely.

So you are saying that slavery, polygamy, concubinage, are part of your religious beliefs....that you do not believe in weddings?
You are one that says stick with the Bible. I am the one saying that God continued to teach us.
 

Enoch111

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So you are saying that slavery, polygamy, concubinage, are part of your religious beliefs....that you do not believe in weddings?
Actually God made the Law of Moses obsolete and polygamy was tolerated, never encouraged. As for weddings, they are definitely NOT obsolete, since the Marriage of the Lamb is in the future.
 

Grailhunter

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Actually God made the Law of Moses obsolete and polygamy was tolerated, never encouraged. As for weddings, they are definitely NOT obsolete, since the Marriage of the Lamb is in the future.

LOL AHHH NO. The word tolerated or concession is never used and God took credit for David's wives.
The more wives and children that the Israelites had was considered as a sign of God's favor.
 

n2thelight

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This is so true. If you change the bible so suit those that say it's out-dated then you lose the truth, and if you lose the truth you lose Jesus. And what you have left is just a man-pleasing organisation of no use to God.

The reason why I'm a KJV only ,as they have omitted a lot of words throughout the years
 

Grailhunter

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The reason why I'm a KJV only ,as they have omitted a lot of words throughout the years
The King James Version and the the New World Translation do not have a lot in common accept both represent some of the most officially documented inaccurate translations. Literally it would take more than one post to list all the inaccuracies. Having said that, the King James Versions of the Bible are some of the most valuable Bibles. If you find the Adulterer's version of the KJV, the Vinegar version of the KJV, the murmurers version of the KJV, the wife hater's version of the KJV, the sin on more version of the KJV, the let the children first be killed version of the KJV, if the later husband ate her version of the KJV, in the same way submit yourselves to your owl husbands version of the KJV, Thy son that shall come forth out of thy lions version of the KJV, and then the Printers have persecuted me...version instead of Princes have persecuted me version...you find any of these, you send them to me and I will split the finder's fee.

And then there is the poetic tones and verses in the KJV, no other Bible sound so pretty. Nothing like being serenaded while you are being lead to salvation. But as a study Bible? As inaccurate as it is, it still runs a close second to the Geneva Bible...better known as the Breeches Bible.
 

Addy

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WOW.... So sorry @Pearl

I am so sorry your thread was overtaken by those who absolutely misunderstood.

I know for me... the fact that God never changes is one of the most comforting truths about His Nature... It is this fact that allows me to trust Him completely.
 
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Grailhunter

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LOL
WOW.... So sorry @Pearl

I am so sorry your thread was overtaken by those who absolutely misunderstood.

I know for me... the fact that God never changes is one of the most comforting truths about His Nature... It is this fact that allows me to trust Him completely.

LOL The phrase "God never changes" was not in her OP.
 

Addy

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@Grailhunter .... With those brand new glasses that I just purchased... I READ.... JESUS is the same yesterday, today and forever.
If you do not believe Jesus is God.... I cannot help you. Pearl asked you guys to please start another thread and you ignored her request.
But... WHATEVER.
 

Grailhunter

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@Grailhunter .... With those brand new glasses that I just purchased... I READ.... JESUS is the same yesterday, today and forever.
If you do not believe Jesus is God.... I cannot help you. Pearl asked you guys to please start another thread and you ignored her request.
But... WHATEVER.
LOL One of four statements....The first three caught my attention because they are not true and the thread is called "Truth" LOL