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  1. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    What translation is that from? Is it the ERV (Easy To Read Version)? Of the 62 English translations listed by the Bible Gateway website, the ERV is the only one to have added the words "So they were not still dead". You shouldn't trust a translation that adds to the Word of God! Those added...
  2. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Huh? I just quoted two verses of Scripture. What's that got to do with gnosticism?
  3. keithr

    Made of Show of Them Openly

    Here is Albert Barnes' notes on this verse: Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled - Plundered as a victorious army does a conquered country. Notes, Col_2:8. The terms used in this verse are all military, and the idea is, that Christ has completely subdued our enemies by his death. A complete...
  4. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    1 John 2:22 (WEB): (22) Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 4:3 (WEB): (3) and every spirit who doesn’t confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the...
  5. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    You don't seem to take any notice of what I write. To repeat what I wrote in post #242, less than 3 days ago, I am not, nor have ever been, a JW. Nobody can forbid me to read whatever I want to read. It's not incorrect. I was just giving a very brief overview, not detailing everything, but...
  6. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Right, Revelation 17:18 (WEB): (18) The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.” Rome and the Vatican was/is a city that reigns over kings of other nations - it's referring to Papacy and the Roman Catholic church. It's nothing to do with the great...
  7. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    You seem to be assuming that the descriptions of the beast, etc. are descriptions of events during the Great tribulation. I don't think that they are. The book of Revelation was a revelation from Jesus showing "his servants the things which must happen soon" (Revelation 1:1). It gives an...
  8. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Why do you think "the beast" is a man? There is no mention of a man in the description - Revelation 13 (WEB): (1) Then I stood on the sand of the sea. I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads. On his horns were ten crowns, and on his heads, blasphemous names...
  9. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    You said that verses 4 & 6 are referring to tribulation saints, and that there is "No mention of the rapture or church saints", so I said there is no mention of the tribulation saints either!
  10. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Why mention the Watchtower? I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses teach what I have been writing (and I am not, nor have ever been, a JW). Being immortal doesn't mean that you have no beginning, just that you will have no end. Christians are to become immortal, but all of them/us have a...
  11. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Well the Codex Sinaiticus doesn't have Revelation verse 5 at all. It says (from Codex Sinaiticus): 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and the power of judging was given to them; and I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God...
  12. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    That's sad :disappointed:. You should try harder to harmonise all Scripture verses to be more sure that you understand God's word to us. Again, the Sriptures say that only God has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16), and that, John 5:26 (WEB): (26) For as the Father has life in himself, even so he...
  13. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    I trusted the source without investigating it's accuracy. A quick search shows that Syriac is a dialect of Aramaic. However, the main point is still correct, the Syriac Peshitta translation of the New Testament was written in the first or second century and is older than any Greek manuscript...
  14. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Jude 1:6 (WEB): (6) Angels who didn’t keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, he has kept in everlasting bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day. These angels are kept in darkness only until their judgement day. The darkness is described as everlasting...
  15. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Bible study shows that the first part of Revelation 20:5, "The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished", is believed by Bible scholars to be an interpolation: Probably crept into the text by accident in the fifth century; at first a marginal comment made by a reader...
  16. keithr

    If perfect, why did Adam sin?

    Actually, it looks like you are quoting the Online Bible Greek Lexicon, which says: 2602 καταβολή katabole [kat-ab-ol-ay’] from 2598; n f; TDNT-3:620,418; [{See TDNT 362 }] AV-foundation 10, to conceive + 1519 1; 11 1) a throwing or laying down 1a) the injection or depositing of the...
  17. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    What makes you think angels are immortal? This passage says only God has immortality, implying that angels are not immortal: 1 Timothy 6:13-16 (WEB): (13) I command you before God, who gives life to all things, ... ; (16) who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no...
  18. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB): (14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. Just because it mentions people being cast into the lake of fire after it...
  19. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    So if you don't want to debate the Trinity then why have you brought up 1 John 5:7 and referred to two of your posts on defending the Trinity? And you posted the same post to an old thread that's been dormant for nearly a year, replying to a post I made about 1.5 years ago? (Is Jesus God...
  20. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    I believe God's word, not men's words. The Trinity was made up by men hundreds of years after the Apostles died. The Apostles did not teach the Trinity, and that is very clear from the Bible. According to the Apostles it is heretical to believe in the Trinity. That verse can be applied to...