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Not a bad point. :) But likewise... Well, I'll put it to you in the form of a question. Do you not think that what He said there is relevant to us today? Surely, it is... And, in your opinion, did Jesus come in AD 70? I hope not... Jesus was speaking beyond His lifetime... and of His...

I agree, but you're still not understanding me. Unless grace is initially free, dependent on nothing else, then it's not really grace ~ unmerited favor ~ at all. Agreed, but again, though you don't mean to, in saying that saving faith is something man manufactures in himself and is therefore...

LOL! Yes, I do deny ~ over and over again ~ your allegations and accusations. :) In like manner, though, I would say: avoid, avoid avoid; that's pretty much all you have done. So be it. I agree. How about now? :) No need to keep digging the hole you're in yet deeper... :) Hmmm, well...

Thanks for your time in addressing all this, but this whole line of discussion is very superfluous (exceeding what is sufficient or necessary) with regard to this thread. That said, I agree with this: "it is entirely possible to pin down the date of Revelation's composition by using its own...

We just don't know for sure. However, Irenaeus reports, on the basis of earlier sources, that "John received the Revelation almost in our own time, toward the end of the reign of Domitian" (Against Heresies). Since Domitian's reign spanned from AD 81 to AD 96, most scholars date Revelation in...

So you're talking about the original poster, the one who started this thread; that's the title of the thread he started. That was not me. But still, even that in saying that, the poster was not actually saying Paul, in any of his writings, quoted John from Revelation. I do see, however, how...

Me, too. I'm not sure who @bluedragon is attributing that to. And, John didn't quote Paul. There was no collaboration. :) However, some ~ many, actually ~ of the same truths of God are expounded upon by Paul and John... :) Grace and peace to you both.

SIGH. :) Continued here... Well no, but I can't change your opinion. Only you can do that. Or... can you...? :) I think you can... Well, they don't actually become elect until the actual electing... :) ...but they are or are not at least headed for election from conception, even before...

I didn't avoid it, I dismissed it out of hand, for obvious reasons that I made very clear in my response. No, I dismissed your attempt at diverting from the issue at hand... or making it something other than what it is. Right, God had already changed their hearts prior to hearing what Paul had...

Remember what Jesus tells that group of Jews in John 8... See above... God is not surprised by anything. Right. Right, and why do they choose this, Spiritual Israelite? Not because "God made them..." :) See above... Sure, but many do not... because... :) See above... Not naturally...

What a strange question to ask... But more avoidance. I get it... But to answer your question, nothing in and of itself. Yeah, I understand the Arminian thing very well; it's all about free will, which is a total miss of the point. It's about the nature of the person, the spirit in him or...

I think you may be missing my point... :) Grace and peace to you.

Or, was the real Author.. :) ...of all Scripture actually Someone... :) ...else? Grace and peace to you, BlueDragon!

Continued from above: Rationalizing something away regarding God's Word is never a good thing in any way. Ohhhhh... yes I can... and you are... :) You don't mean to be, for sure, but you are. Well, the same as anyone else: acknowledging God for Who He is, worshiping Him as Creator rather than...

LOL!!! Okay, just a few things... :) Oh, I agree with you about context, and my exhortation to you would be, quit avoiding the context. My goodness. Okay: "...these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows...

You got it! :) As if I haven't been clear about this several times before now... :) Is there anything able to preclude God's will? Again, from Paul in Romans 9, "You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to...

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." (Paul, 1 Corinthians 2:14) John Calvin did not "make it up," Spritual Israelite. I already spoke to this, SI. Jesus...

Okay, the home stretch, finally... :) Okay yeah, this is important. I mean, it all is, but... Ah, there it is. I knew this was coming long ago, as you may remember; I tried to draw it out of you then. :) So, yeah, God's 'foreknowledge..." Let's focus on Romans 8:29. When Paul says...

Okay, continued from above... Okay, well, please think of the ramifications of your Arminian beliefs. :) Two things: a) I actually was Arminian in my understanding of these things at one time ~ and for a good length of time ~and have since... well, "repented"... :) And... b) Neither...

We need to try to boil this down, or break it up somehow into more manageable pieces... :) But, nevertheless, continued from above: Right, and they are in need of being born of the Spirit, and it does have everything to do with being able to make a spiritual decision, a decision of the Holy...