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Rev 12, 13 and 20 mention death, but that doesnt mean it is related to that group in Ch. 15.

Marks, they entered through widespread persecution. But to go back to your first point, we dont know if the second group died. It only tells us "had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name,". Nothing in there denotes death.

Sure, if you want to leave a brief outline, that would be great. Either here or even in a private message. Whatever works. :)

I don’t consider it a possibility to have a partial harpazo. These are over-comers signified by the crystal sea mixed with fire for refining. They are seen triumphant after patient endurance over the mark, and the beast etc demonstrating: 1. People will be saved during the Trumpets 2. If they...

Here’s another: When we look into Rev 4:6, where Pre-TB will say we are now in heaven in that Ch., why is the crystal sea absent of…people? Yet in Rev 15:2, the same crystal sea now has over-comers standing on it. This happens before the bowls are poured. How do people miss the resurrection and...

I think that could be difficult to demonstrate. If all eschatology views were correct, it’s mixing up timelines for the 70th week, where wrath is or isn’t, multiple places for the resurrection etc. There are only 2 resurrections listed: the just and unjust. Those at Christ coming and those at...

Marks, When I said, “yet you do this”, which you highlighted- I was speaking generally of Pre-TB, not specifically you. Pre-TB like any other eschatological theory will have those that agree/disagree on parts, but still follow its or another’s “basic” portions. I know of some Pre-TBs that move...

I was looking at this thread and thought....why not :) As I read through countless claims of it's "pre-wrath" or it's "Pre-TB", I can't help but ask myself, are they reading what they are even posting? How about we all sit back and instead of posting 50 different reasons which lead to 50...

I’d say, those that have faith, know the son and do the will of the Father. Even God told Elijah there were those that he reserved that did not kneel to Ba’al. Christian is a word easily tossed around present times. To be a Christian is to be moral minded, self controlled among other things and...

Ronald, There is so much information to go over here. Really, it could be multiple threads with various topics and I struggle to think of a way to simplify a proper response that doesn’t become a wall of text. Is the bride of Christ the Church universal? Yes Is the bride also New Jerusalem...

Yes, all Israel will be saved. And yes, all Israel will produce fruit. And who makes up Israel according to the early church, the NT and Paul?

Im not sure about that. I think it’s prudent to be careful not to assume every mention of a fig tree to be national Israel. Otherwise, do we use that same logic with Mark 11:13-14 where Christ tells his disciples let no fruit grow on this fig tree forever? If so, and if Israel is the fig...

Well, I noticed one problem. If you think the AC is the first seal, I’m guessing you’re Pre-Tb (That doesn’t mean that’s the problem btw, it’s how it’s identified and I hope I explain it below) Now, I’m not going to get into all that. I’ll just say, if the first seal was the AC and you believe...

I That is correct, only Luke identified “other trees”. Of course, Luke was a physician who wrote specifics too. But that fact doesn’t matter to me because the point of that scripture is the context. That being, it has nothing to do with Israel in the Middle East. What it has to do with is...

Timtofly, Don’t worry, just continue to study and you will continue to learn. As for those who flatter themselves in these threads with slander and pompous words, I’d hate for them on that day they stand before Christ when every word out of their mouth and on these forums is held accountable...

I responded to the scripture he quoted. Luke 21:29-30: - 29 Then He spoke to them a parable: "Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near." The comment was made that the fig tree represents Israel. For...

How would the 1st horseman, who conquers, be identified with Covid-19? It is a disease which would be linked, if by a horseman, to the 4th seal of pestilence? Also, who said seals 1-4 havent been opened since Christ entered heaven? All those things exist today and they existed before Christ...

If we use the example given to us in Daniel, of Nebuchadnezzar's statue, it could be masculine, but still not alive. Yet that statue or edifice, did breathe as it were and did command as it was. It did not need to speak, because all that did not bow before it was to be slain because of it. Based...

I'd take a second look at Matthew 13:41-43, 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then shall the...

Sorry, but I do not agree with this comment. I agree that it deals with the Day of the Lord. But IMHO not the 6th seal. Christ rises at the 6th seal for judgment, his Orge to answer the martyrs request. But his thumos is saved for his return setting up his kingdom. That poured out wrath is the...