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Nothing cleaver here and I’m not hiding anything, it’s just that it makes absolutely no sense, and I mean common sense, to ask a question that you obviously know the answer to. Again do you go around asking people how many hours are in a day?

My, are you upset about this or something? Both the scriptures and logic tells us that the fifth seal event has already passed.

You didn’t answer the question of why people are asking God a question that they know with absolute certainty what the answer already is. Would you ask someone how long a day is when you already know it’s 24 hours long?

In Revelation 6:9-11 the souls under the altar ask the question of how long dost thou not judge them that dwell on the earth. The answer is given in vs 11 that they should rest a little season until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that they should be killed as they were, should be...

One reason I moved towards preterist was that I saw enough things being fulfilled in the first century and that these fulfillments could possibly be a foreshadowing of still future events. The more I studied this the more things I saw that maybe didn’t qualify as being a fulfillment of prophecy...

Yes, I agree. I understand where you’re coming from, I used to be Amil at one time but now I lean towards preterist. I tend to learn more when conversations are good natured even when we disagree on things. In the few posts of yours that I’ve read so far I see this quality. I try to be that...

I don’t necessarily agree with this point because people can be deceived by other means than Satan. We can deceive ourselves, 1 John 1:8 and as we see in 1 Kings 22:21-23 there are other spirits that can persuade or deceive. I personally think Babylon is Jerusalem and I know you don’t agree...

Alright then should we conclude that according to Revelation 18:2 Satan is caged or held in those that are deceived and worship the beast? Meaning Satan can go around like a roaring lion but there is a partition of sorts that can’t be crossed?

Can you provide verses to support the idea of foul spirits and hateful birds = doctrine and practices of the church?

In Revelation 18:2 Babylon is the hold of every foul spirit and cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Wherever in time you place Babylon, it has to contain Satan because Satan is foul and unclean. If Premil has Babylon being no more by the time Christ returns then sometime prior to the...

So when Satan is caged in Babylon how will the rest of the world be? Will nations still be deceived or not?

Jeremiah 31:37 doesn’t say if all of heaven as a whole can be measured, it says if heaven above can be measured. In other words if it is possible to measure heaven above then … A similar statement would be, if you can count numbers then … As you know we can always add one more number and since...

Thanks for pointing that out. To be honest I’m not all that familiar with church history or the positions the early church fathers took. I copied this list from a post in another forum and that post didn’t get any rebuttal about those who are on this list.

I can’t argue with that thought, most people wouldn’t dare to start changing or modifying scripture to fit our current perspective. Saying John was written after 70AD but was “created” prior to 70AD might be true, I don’t know.

Well, Premil argue at length about how Satan isn’t bound until the millennium, so I would think being caged or bound in Babylon might fit with being bound for the millennium. I don’t know exactly how Premil deals with this, which is why I asked.

Thanks for that explanation. I still think John wouldn’t use present tense on something like the pool at Bethesda if it was already destroyed. Currently I don’t think anyone would say something like “ now there is in New York twin towers” as that wouldn’t sit well with most people when trying to...

EARLY DATE ADVOCATES Continued...... Frederick Denisen Maurice, Lectures on the Apocalypse, 2nd ed. (London: Macmillan, 1885). John David Michaelis, Introduction to the New Testament, vol. 4; and Sacred Books the New Testament. Charles Pettit MIlvaine, The Evidences of Christianity...

If anyone is interested here is a list of those who place an early than 70AD writing of Revelation. I got this list from another forum. Firmin Abauzit, Essai sur 1Apocalypse (Geneva: 1730). Jay E. Adams, The Time is at Hand (Philipsburg NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1966). Luis de Alcasar...

Ok, but why does John 5:2 say “now there is” as in present tense instead of “there was” as in past tense?

John 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches. I thought the pool at Bethesda was destroyed in 70AD.