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Please deal with the doctrine of the preservation of the saints, not the doctrine of election.

Did he surprise God when he said them?

Who said his confession and repentance meant nothing? God is the active force in all who are saved. The Scripture reveals this extensively. Faith is the requirement for salvation. Obedience is the sign we are in possession of a salvific faith. Repentance is what we do in coming to faith...

Those opposed to the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints please deal with this text. John 6 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not...

And it was still God that brought him to paradise.

Who said they are carefully programmed?

I submit it was God that saved him.

Who said they don't choose?

Yet the thief on the cross only had faith and was rewarded with paradise and Jesus' company. And I have never spoken against obedience. Those who are His sheep hear and follow His voice.

So then only those God saves are a part of His plan of salvation. All others are under His wrath.

Do you believe everybody is saved?

You make unsubstantiated claims in this response. You also make claims that are irrelevant. Then you redefine predestination to suit your doctrinal bent. Lastly the final premise you give is no argument at all if you approach the calls to preserve as exhortation. The negative aspect of the...

This is an affirmation of your choosing to eisegete the text. Notice you bend the "in line with all scripture" to suit your doctrinal bent. I simple exegete the text for what it says. This is where you and I differ regarding this text.

Now you are confusing foreknowledge with predestination...

Then you should object to the apostles, to Saul, to Jeremiah, to Moses, to Abraham, to Noah, to Enoch. If you are quite sure you are saved then why do you argue against the perseverance of the saints doctrine? I advocate obedience. Christ knows the hearts of all of humanity, and humbles the...

Did you even read what you quoted? I said God does not make our decisions... Now as far as "proving" OSAS I am not attempting to do that. I give evidence supporting the perseverance of the saints doctrine. Here is all the evidence I need from the mouth of God... John 6 Then Jesus declared, “I...

Stan, The epistle to the Romans was written to a specific audience. Thereby this portion of the epistle has a specific meaning meant to be able to be understood by that audience. This audience did not have the whole cannon of Scripture to refer to, yet Paul was able to convey understanding...

Stan, So then you say God's plan is contingent on our obedience yet this is not what this portion of Scripture conveys. You must import that idea into the text. We agree concerning predestine... The etymology of the Greek verb translated “predestine” suggests marking out a boundary...

Thanks! I have done a bit of research on this particular passage and have come to some definite conclusions on it in a stand alone context. Here I am dealing with this scripture with what it says directly in relation to the language and grammar used without importing any other theological...

It seems you have an issue with what scripture presents or at least your interpretation of it... Do you have a better understanding of the Greek in the Romans 8:28-30 that I did not represent in my post? Clearly Scripture presents God as sovereign in the decisions of man, yet man is culpable...