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I am uncertain what you are attempting to convey here. Are you stating this verse contradicts the Romans verse?

Stan, I did not intend my comment to be ad hominem rather descriptive of your position. I can see how you would take it as a personal attack, I apologize. The text states God predetermined those who will be conformed into the image of Christ. This speaks nothing to our ability rather to His...

Barred you are giving emotional arguments...not scriptural.

You have a wrong concept of προορίζω... predestine; foreordain BDAG predetermine, LSJ determine beforehand; predetermine, predestine DBL Greek decide beforehand This is different than God had one plan for our life but he isn't sure if we are going to follow that plan. You have a weak...

If the calling is effectual so must be the remaining portion of the chain. None have seen glory this side of heaven... To state this another way, those who are predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ will complete what God has predestined them to which ends in glorification and...

Yet the passage also speaks of glorification. Are you stating the chain of God's predestination can be broken? Here is another passage that is related... 1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also...

God knows all who love Him. These are predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ. So then can these from this portion of Scripture "lose their salvation"? Also then from your standpoint the calling mentioned in this portion of scripture must be effectual, correct? Then you are...

A post of Scripture without your explanation does nothing. Where does this say people are saved before they are called?

Please explain how Romans shows we are saved before we are called. Let's start here with this response... There are other points we will probably be addressing...

Well Stan you said it succinctly. Truly the entire T.U.L.I.P. concept has blurred the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. I agree we walk into salvation. I would add we all walk into it through God's sovereign call. I know some refuse to respond effectively to the call and thereby...

2 Cor 7:10 does not disagree with my argument at all. Repenting leads to salvation for those who endure to the end, but God is still the cause of salvation. This affirms repentance is the first step in salvation, yet this is not saying repentance is finality of salvation or that salvation is...

It may be my response to your post was from a different understanding that you were attempting to convey. Let me present my contention to you first so we may dialogue from a clear understanding. Perhaps the greatest issue I have is the loose use of the definition of salvation. Clearly from...

I agree with the writer of Hebrews yet not your contention they were ever in possession of salvation. Repentance does not cause salvation, enduring faith in Christ is the vehicle God uses for salvation. Repentance is the first step in salvation yet it is far from the perfection of salvation...

Thanks Oz for the response. I do not deny the hearer's responsibility to the call yet the stress of my post was on God's sovereign call.

I would like to submit Augustine is careful to not speak of salvation in either gain or loss.

Stan, In context Jesus was not only speaking about or even only to the twelve... After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. - John 6:66 This immediately follows in the pericope...would you claim they had salvation then lost it? I do not disagree that we are...

God does not direct our every thought, but He knows them all. God does not make our decisions for us, but He knows our decisions before we do. Even more than that He knows all the reasons why we make the decisions we do better than we know ourselves. We have the ability to make choices, and we...

This pericope of Scripture speaks strongly reflecting what I have been saying all along. 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning...

Jude Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Funny you continue to preach no one knows the heart except God, yet you judge me here. I will have to remember to come out of the ivy covered halls this weekend when I am ministering in the women's prison. Perhaps next weekend at the soup kitchen I should reread this post, or the following...