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  1. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    I genuinely feel sorry for you, Johann. You have an abundance of man-made teachings at your disposal, but they are utterly worthless. Let me ask you a question: Has what you want to share been copied and pasted before in this thread or forum? How many times, and what has it accomplished? You...
  2. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Johann, I thought you had moved on? I believe you mentioned being restrained a few times, around 5 or 6, perhaps? Anyway, I’m feeling quite relaxed (tonight) knowing this subject is now complete. Now, I’ll review the thread and go over all the points and unanswered questions, which, as you know...
  3. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Yes a renovation of the mind is what is required...clean it all out but don't leave it empty! Fill it with sound teaching. F2F
  4. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Comprehension Pro! Jesus was given life as a person in Mary and the HS is God's Power Anything else this fine evening? F2F
  5. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Hi Stumpmaster Thanks for the post! "I’ve been taking my time trying to help Pro understand the work of the Holy Spirit and the power of God. It's slow going F2F
  6. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    I find you and Pro's post's rather boring at present to be straight with you. Your reasoning would have John in Heaven with Jesus also? “A man came, sent from God, whose name was John” John 1:6 "Now, I understand this is idiomatic and in no way am I forcing the interpretation of John 'coming...
  7. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Bring out those well worn paths, Johann! Hope you had a good rest! Right now, the back-and-forth is with Pro, who seems unable to prove that Jesus, the Son of Man, was already in Heaven and then came down in what form? It seems like your imaginations have gotten a bit carried away..." It is...
  8. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    It's clear you are struggling with this Pro. We’ve already been given the account, so why resist? In Luke 1:35 "the angel tells Mary that the Holy Spirit will overshadow her, and the power of God will come upon her. But where does it say that Jesus, the Son of Man, came down literally from...
  9. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    BTW, yes, I am a layman in the truest sense—just an ordinary disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ, with no reputation.
  10. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Your comprehension needs a lot of work Pro! What type of person asks a flawed question more than once? How about we move you from John 3:13 to John 8:23? John 8:23 (ESV) says: "He said to them, 'You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." Try asking...
  11. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Regarding John 3:13, which has caused some Trinitarians to become rather excited... they can relax! Christ did not literally descend from heaven! His origin was heavenly, as the context of John 3:31 indicates, in that he was conceived by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, and His teachings were...
  12. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Why don't you address the "Holy, Holy, Holy" post, instead of continuing with this needless discussion?
  13. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    As I implied your question is flawed! Heaven does not hold any fleshly men - you get this right? However, what it does hold is God's Power to create him in the womb of Mary, which is what happened. I think you know your problem "even the Son of man which is in heaven". Did the Son of man...
  14. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Correct, best to accept the majority view of the Apostles! 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people. Tt 2:11. A salvation in Christ Whom He raised from the dead! Christ will represent Him as he did in the Flesh he will do in the Spirit! Only created beings...
  15. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Because everything stated in Hebrews means nothing if he already had those things beforehand! Angels – Hebrews 1:4 "Having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs." Moses – Hebrews 3:3-6 "For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than...
  16. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    You have sailed close to the truth Brakelite and all is needed is a heavy gust to get you there. No one in this forum, to my knowledge, has denied the Sonship of Jesus. What I have denied is his preexistence, because he cannot be the firstborn from the dead if He preexisted as an immortal. This...
  17. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    It is, and it will ultimately be revealed as one of the most destructive forces in the world. Can you imagine how the Apostles will respond when they are risen and glorified, seeing the spiritual devastation caused by this? The atrocities committed in the name of this god. Read The Malleus...
  18. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    How else could you respond? You can't buy the oil David!
  19. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    Pure desperation is kicking in here! @Wrangler @APAK (you both will want to look at this one!) This is a great example of a person (David) who is immature in the things of God, one who has not put in the require effort to learn but one who needs to be taught! How does God interpret this in...
  20. face2face

    Exploring Trinitarian Logic

    2. Please