Search results

Hebrews 5:1-10 For every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of men in things pertaining to God, in order to offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins; he can deal gently with the ignorant and misguided, since he himself also is beset with weakness; and because of it he is...

I know you have been popping in and out but I already said why I believe Christ had to pay a price, Steve. This is not in question (although we do hold different views).

Amen! And the price of our redemption is the precious blood of Christ. We were purchased by His blood. It is a mistake to believe we were in bondage to God and Jesus purchased us from His Father as Scripture tells us we were in bondage to the power of sin and death.

Try to hang in there David - we are not talking about the same thing. You are talking about a sin debt owed to God under Penal Substitution Theory. I am talking about the charges against us under the decrees of the law in context of Colossians 2:13-15.

That is the difference, David. You are talking about a debt owed to someone. I (and Scripture) am not. You think we are both talking about a debt owed to someone and you think I accept this because you cannot see past your theory. You are wrong.

Your statement is that it is nonsense to think a payment was made but not to someone. My illustration is very applicable and highlights our differences. You assume someone had to be paid because you overlay your theory onto Scripture. But the Bible NEVER presents Christ as paying a price to...

No, David. That reasoning is based on your assumptions and your desire to believe your theory (something I do understand). Our freedom (as a nation) was purchased with a price (with the sacrifices of people). This price was paid but not paid to anyone. Our freedom from sin and death was...

These are elementary issues, David. Christ was redeeming mankind, paying the price for us. The philosophical question is "to whom was the price paid". Scripture does not address redemption in that context. Christ paid the price, suffered the consequences, redeemed us, the chastening for our...

David, you should be beyond these elementary questions. We disagree but you should by now have at least a fundamental understanding of Scripture and the gospel even past our disagreements. He was not "paying" anyone. Romans 8:1-2 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in...

I agree that Christ suffered the wages of sin on behalf of mankind. I believe He is the "second Adam", the "Firstborn".

Sorry, I must have misunderstood your earlier comment (that you did not understand my position). My point stands, however. I believe that we are redeemed (purchased) not by gold or sliver but by the precious blood of Christ. His suffering was to purchase us.

@David Taylor , Cutting to the chase - instead of punishing sin in order to forgive us I believe that God requires repentance in the form of dying to sin and being made alive in Christ in order to be forgiven. This is, I know, contrary to your theory. BUT that is why I gave you the illustration...

Theology 101 (sometimes that is harder than the more advance stuff as it is so easy to forget the basics). The "certificate of debt" is a "proclamation". Scripture tells us that the law was added to magnify or to "highlight" our sin. This would be an actual debt to the law. But this is not...

I do not believe that God is literally a man in heaven keeping literal books. Scripture teaches us that God is Spirit. The only "man" that is God is Christ. That said, I do believe that Scripture communicates divine things in a way we can understand (without having to add our myths). You need...

I did answer. What about my answer do you not understand? There was no "debt", it was a "certificate of debt" (the law shows us our sin). This highlights, IMHO, the sinfulness of man and the rightful judgment that would come. There are two options - either we are judged guilty or we are made...

I do not understand your confusion here, David. We are told that Christ has made us alive together with Christ by 1. canceling out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which were hostile to us and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross; and disarming...

David, My brother thinks I'm stupid because I pay $35 a pair for my boxer briefs. The reason he thinks I am stupid is that he has never worn $35 boxer briefs because he thinks it is stupid. I cannot think of a way I can be more specific than I have been. This "certificate" to which I am...

I mean the decrees that were against us.

I believe the law is that certificate against us which is nailed to the Cross and our redemption is the righteousness of God manifested apart from the law.

That's fine. I also have been dropping in and out. It is by Christ's stripes we are healed. I agree. But I believe this to be in the context of redemption (we were purchased not with silver or gold but with the precious blood of Christ).