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Yes. Origen did use that language (and as you know Gregory argued this was the "powers" of sin and death rather than actually a payment to Satan). I am glad you are not unstudied but at the same time do not know why you like presenting opposing ideas in a partial way.

This is my point. You do not understand the answers other views provide so you cannot make an educated assessment.

I agree. These are two very different ways of understanding the work of Christ and they have been debated for centuries. I guess the reason it is more of a "hot topic" now is the debate is fairly common in areas where it once was not (in the US anyway). Both views (along with others) reside...

No offense taken. I believe this applies: Galatians 3:11-14 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “ THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH .” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "He WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." Christ redeemed us from...

I believe the context of the passage is punishment for sin (one man dying instead of another). Christ did not die instead of us dying. Instead Christ shared in our infirmity and became a curse for us (suffered under the bondage of sin and death and shattered its bonds on us).

Here is the issue, @Steve Owen and @David Taylor , I understand Penal Substitution Theory. It makes sense. It answers the question why Christ had to die. I understand the Classic view of Atonement. It makes sense. It answers the question why Christ had to die. I understand Moral Influence...

I hold the Ransom Theory in the context of the early church, not the expression that that Satan was paid but that we were freed from the bondage of sin. As you know (having studied the topic yourself) the Ransom Theory was expressed in several forms (a Ransom paid to Satan, to death, and simply...

No. Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the world. That is the point. Do you believe He canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross? I ask because you seem to be taking...

I believe so, Steve. The bewildering part is I have provided what I believe and you are looking for a specific answer for a specific question within my expressed view. You ask why God gave us to the Lord Jesus but He still has to pay a price to redeem us. God giving us the Lord Jesus IS the...

No. Origen's writing put it in the context of God paying a random to Satan. Scholars have questioned that he meant that literal (most kean to his use to represent the powers of sin). Regardless by the middle ages it was taken to mean this. Leon Morris wrote an interesting article (he holds your...

Serious? You read my view and all you can come up with is "then Christ had no reason to die"??? The truth is that you do not understand why Christ had to die except under Penal Substitution Theory. And that is sad for a seminary graduate (you do not have to agree with my view, but you should...

@David Taylor, If it is simply my view you want to understand then I will simply say that I hold the "classic view" of the Atonement (Ransom Theory). Not that God paid a ransom to Satan or to God (both have been suggested) but that Christ ransomed us and freed us from the law of sin and death...

A debt in the context of the law but not a "sin debt" that God must satisfy before He can forgive man. God is not that weak and man is not that strong.

I believe that we have to be baptized into Christ's death (we have to die to sin) and be made alive in Christ. There is no condemnation in Christ. To use your example: Saul owes a debt. Saul dies. Paul is born. Paul does not owe Saul's debt. Even that is just an illustration. Fact is you make...

Sorry. I come from a Penal Substitution Theory tradition so it is easy for me to slip into that language without meaning the same thing. I believe "sin debt" in terms of Penal Substitution Theory is incorrect. When I speak if debts what I mean is our transgressions against God but not in the...

Sorry, I thought we were on the same page there. Romans 8:1-4 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the...

@Steve Owen 's criticism was that the OP was too much Scripture and not enough commentary (not enough explanation).

No, that is not true. Colossians 2:8-15 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in...

I am having an honest conversation. I do not know what else to say David. Do you really not see the price Christ paid to redeem us and cancel out the accusations against us in that passage?

How do you not?