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Why do you believe the "cup" Christ drank and shared with His disciples is God's wrath?

Fo you believe physical death is a wage of sin? If so, do you believe we will physically die (and why was this not paid by Christ) ? If not, why do we physically die?

I believe Romans 6 teaches we are dead to sin and made alive in Christ and therefore His servants who obey His commands (to include not adding to Scripture). How do you draw the idea that God punished Jesus I stead of punishing us by pouring His wrath upon Christ from Romans 6?

You can disagree that Abraham offering up his only begotten son foreshadows the Father offering His only begotten Son but that is the point - we can discuss it because I am able to explain my view. You cannot. I believe that Isaiah 53 speaks of God offering His Son but not punishing Him because...

Look at your explanation: 1. You provide verses that do not state your theory. 2. You claim your theory is right because the words fall within the possible meanings. 3. You claim context dictates your conclusion although you cannot explain how when others come to a completely different...

I believe Abraham and Isaac foreshadow redemption. I understand you do not (I suppose you would had Abraham slaughtered his som as that would have fit better in the narrative you superimpose on Scripture). Anyway, this was a point made in a missiology course (at Liberty). I have a friend who is...

You said that you believe Penal Substitution Theory because of Isaiah 53. Ironically, I reject Penal Substitution Theory because of Isaiah 53. But unlike you, I explained why.

When the two of you chose to take my request via PM to the public forum I changed my mind. The reason is that I believe your religious philosophy (both the eisegesis and your theories) dangerous as it detracts from Kingdom work by fictionalizing God's work of and purpose for redemption. It is...

This is confusing. Looks like I missed a lot of your conversations. @Steve Owen is posting a PM I sent him on the public forum. I had sent him a PM telling him I was withdrawing from discussing the topic with him because I did not see an advantage to it. Steve cannot explain how he goes from...

I had decided to stop conversing with you and David. But neither of you could respect that so I will continue. Perhaps another will read and realize you have proved unwilling to even attempt a defence of your conclusions (you just state a verse and then your opinion as if you accomplished...

This is a false assertion. What you did was say that Isaiah must be a reference to punishment because words like “wounded” and “stripes” are use therefore it has to be a punishment. That is, of course, nonsense. I was wounded, but not punished, in Bosnia. I had friends who were pierced with...

False assertion. You should have said "I have not said". This is one problem, David. By your standard Abraham was wrathful to Isaac as he punished him by laying him on that altar and would have punished him by pouring his wrath upon his son if God had not stayed his hand. Your theory is based...

You have given us Scripture and your interpretation of Scripture. BUT you have not justified or explained your interpretation except to say it is a possible meaning. I gave you Scripture, my interpretation, and how I arrived there. That is what you cannot, apparently, do. I simply do not...

MANY scholars disagree that it is what it means here as well. My request was for you to defend your interpretation. Just saying there are smart people who agree with you does not mean your theory is correct. There are Many scholars who are atheists, Buddhist, Muslim, etc. You set your...

I do have one question you may be able to answer - When Jesus spoke of the "cup" and said that his Disciples would indeed share the "cup" he was about to drink, does this make his Disciples co-redeemers in your opinion?

Your explanation is what makes Penal Substitution Theory one of several theories of the Atonement. You assume the "cup" Christ "drank" and "shared" with his Disciples is the "cup of God's wrath" even though Scripture uses the word "cup" to symbolize other than God's wrath and Scripture tells us...

I take it you are referencing Jude 1:7.

I agree that Christ died as the representative of mankind (the second "Adam") suffering the consequences of sin on our behalf. But I see this as a physical death so I do not believe Christ died so that we would not experience physical death. He gives us life. But He saves us through death...

I actually do not mind the word "punished" at all. I just do not believe it accurately describes the basis of our redemption. It is not derived from Scripture but applied to Scripture based on what some believe was required. I once heard a story about a wealthy farmer who sent his servants to...

You believe God revealed Penal Substitution Theory to you as a special revelation? Did you get gold tablets and magic glasses or was this in some type of dream or vision.... perhaps your favorite pastors speaking as God's vicor? I do not believe in continued special revelation (I believe...