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I understand why they would want to feel special in His eyes and use this belief to motivate their proclamation, but in my view, they are still mistaken.

Also @David in NJ I owe you an apology (sorry) for claiming you were wrong when actually you were right. The true spiritual children from Jacob are given divine care and called by the HS so while its true the multitude of Elect from Jacob is the primary lesson; God's divine care of us and the...

Can you now see how the Jehovah's Witnesses' belief that Christ remains in Heaven is essentially impossible? If Christ comes to Zion to save her, and then leaves Zion to restore all thing (peace to the earth), how can they still hold that Christ and the 144,000 remain in Heaven? This doctrine...

Sorry David, If you look at day three Growth Upon the Earth verses 9-13 You will find the number three in the Bible often has the figurative signification of resurrection, or completion. The first appearance of land was also of great significance in the development of Yahweh's purpose. F2F

Depends if you can see what Paul did to the text, if you can't then how can you understand how all Israel (natural) will be saved?

As you would be aware it not whether one can count to three or four, its whether one can prove the convoluted formula which we know isn't found anywhere in the text. It's incredible how Jesus can call David Lord also! I guess you would need to know the Masters roots. F2F

Well, you could read Romans 11 11:25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is...

Correct, He gave you breath - the ability to live and exist no diff to an animal No - He was in the mind of God from the beginning but revealed at the due time as the Bible teaches. Yes, now you are getting it! Wow, off on some weird numerological tangent. F2F

But your original response is correct about Israel for the most rejected the Son of God and for 2000 years they have suffered terribly for it. F2F

That last part is a fundamental truth. F2F

I think you would do well to study "The Son of Man" for many months and then come back to me with this ancient knowledge. Only then could we see eye to eye. F2F

It simply means the Jews did not require a triune god to save them. It's clear from Christ and Paul words that many understood the One True God and held a meaningful relationship with Him. F2F

No, because we are God's children through the same means which is why he is called firstfruits, first begotten etc. As soon as you make Christ pre-existent you lose all identify with him as the Son of Man and he no longer represents us. F2F

Correct, those who were hardened did not know the Father Agree. God took from His People a remnant So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. Ro 11:5. The point being established is the OT Elect were saved before the revelation of Jesus Christ though he was promised...

@Brakelite The first occurrence in the Bible happens to be Genesis 15 "The word of Yahweh" Gen 15:1 This is the first instance of the notable phrase dabar Yahweh, which appears frequently throughout Scripture. It signifies the communication of Yahweh's will to humanity. The Ten Commandments...

Brakelite In the Logos was "life and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4) Logos represents the external manifestation of internal thought or reasoning. It goes beyond just a word, encompassing the deeper meaning or concept behind the word expressed. In other contexts, we also learn that...

@ScottA @Verily I think you both might have missed the point of the opening question. When Paul wrote that God preserved Israel for the sake of the Elect i.e. Abraham, Isaac & Jacob etc these are those who are saved and those who understood God, His Person and Position in the Heavens. Yes...

Agree - the point was being made that Jesus the person did not transform himself into the ovary of Mary to become a man - what is more likely? Agree However conception happened - it happened, end of story F2F

Agree - my apologies if I have read things into your posts, or forgotten certain beliefs you have expressed in the past. I don't believe it was punishment....but I get the thrust of what you are saying 1. God required His Law and Flesh to be taken out of the way 2. Christ showed us how to live...

This a is terrible reading of the Word of God and in no way was the Bible meant to have so many poor notions forced on it. Context and textual criticism are good starting points to discover truth F2F