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You've "responded" to me on this issue without responding to me a couple of times already : isn't it true Irenaeus accidentally introduced an incorrect teaching (the one I mentioned)?

Whether we are OSAS or NOSAS it's an important issue to emphasize. NOSAS can result in wavering on this. It's really substantive. It's not of secondary but primary importance. Trusting God.

Yup, people in Church are capable of both good and bad. They're not flawless. I believe I already answered this before. You are welcome to that answer.

There is real truth, real power, in this belief--faih that overcomes. It's open season on people who don't trust Christ--to what ever extent they're not trusting Christ.

@GodsGrace I'm thankful for you being here, bc, though we differ sometimes, we agree on some key points, and I appreciate contact with likeminded (Biblically minded) individuals. Thank you.

@GodsGrace Don't ask me to quote my favorite ECFs, bc i don't read much, bc every time I read them in the past, most of the time, it was basically reiterating the Bible (except when it wasn't--weaving ideas they, by my reckoning, seemed to have come up with on their own). "Well, why not just...

@GodsGrace The ECFs should be praised, and the saints looked to, reverenced and emulated--they are great examples and patterns for us (I would be accountable if I advised against such wholesome things)--still, ultimately, the last Word belongs to God's Word.

@GodsGrace I think we all look for certainty, because that really gives us peace--the difference we are having is I am willing to recognize my certainty (and peace) can't come from 100% wholesale incurious unquestioning faith in the ECFs, because they made errors (as I've proven). You...

Irenaeus made a mistake. Are you saying JESUS taught Mary was the new Eve and taught His disciples that? I reject that--based on Scripture which proves no one but the Church could be the New Eve, and Paul draws the connection himself (2 Co 11:3). Why would you draw me away from the Apostolic...

They make errors, too. Irenaeus claimed Mary was the new Eve... when only the Church could be. Adam was MARRIED to Eve. The "Last Adam" is married to the Church! She is the "Last Eve" or "New Eve" if there is one. And Paul even says so (2 Co 11:2). Yet the CC went ahead and put it in their...

Thanks. i generally prefer to go straight to the text, and wrestle with the texts--if they wrestle with the texts (not just give one-sided analyses, but address why people have questions, and give real solutions).

Lol! I have had serious questions about it myself! Aren't we allowed to be open to respecting the text, and going wherever truth leads us? (I'm leaning heavily toward Jesus being God, though I still have questions.) You SHOULDN'T accept what you consider to be incorrect doctrine!

Who said you should accept incorrect doctrine? Or do I accept it? No, this is a place of discussion where people disagree, and share their reasons for why they disagree.

To varying degrees, yes--based on His Word. In Marks's mind, he is wanting people to trust God in a particular sense, based on what He thinks God's Word is on this matter. Why can't you accept that? Or can you? Such a thing could be the case... and I've also been to the local Church of the...

In his mind, it is to lead people to trust God. Well, that's the whole discussion, so you can't, as part of the discussion, accuse someone of having bad motives or intentions, and then cite their position as proof of your accusation : a. It's sort of circular reasoning. You know he denies the...

Motives and intentions are basically synonymous--his motive is what is driving him, and his intentions concern the outcome of his motives and work toward those ends. For "led astray" to be a substantive danger, it has to be "astray from the Lord", but, again, Peter was not "astray" ("away from...

But the whole issue was you said he had bad intentions-if you're now saying you don't think that anymore, then good. Yeah, I agree with you that OSAS is inaccurate, but I don't think God requires 100% accuracy for people to know Him or to lead people to Him. Peter, himself, for years after the...

:100:

I give serious consideration to everything people say--how else could I give a satisfactory response (whether positive or negative--satisfactory to me, anyway)? That said, I really believe you are trying to help people, and I really think you are doing your best to serve the Lord, and I really...

I don't know your psychology, or how things work in your mind, but I don't need to feel better about myself on this issue.