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But his intention is to have people trust God.

I can't change how you view it. I am 100% honest about everything I said there. I was trying to get her to see that you really don't have evil intentions. Difficult.

Even though I am gobsmacked that anyone could actually make the decisions to shape their minds into the shapes Marks shapes his mind into, I wouldn't say his motives are not good, and it is not good for anyone to say his motives are not good. He simply reads differently than we do. As hard as it...

Right, so it just puzzled me why you began with "No", in that case--I was trying to figure out why you had begun with "no" (maybe you had gotten "refuted" mixed up with "refused"--apparently not).

So, the long and the short of it was that I agreed with you on OSAS was unbiblical and not apostolic--and we know this because the only place it ever appeared in early church history was among the gnostics, whom the Church declared heretics, and that, strikingly, OSAS began to appear in the...

I'm just saying they exist.

Yeah, in the preceding verses, the imperatives "seek the things that are above... set your affections on the things that are above not on earthly things"--this is not something all, or even most, Christians do. Not having affections for things of the earth, but for heaven, is not the norm with...

We've been through all of your arguments, it seems--you have gone to these same passages over and over and over in various threads I've made--and I've given my responses, and we've differed.

1 Corinthians? Paul says the Corinthians are carnal.

The word "refute" is not the word "refuse" : "refute" means "disprove" or "debunk".

I believe in a form of OSAS : those who fall away retroactively never partook of Christ, they are blotted out, they become never-have-believed, so, in a sense, OSAS.

I think I gotta address this after I get back home. Too much to type on a phone.

You're agreeing with me. Why start with "No"? Manicheanism is Gnosticism. Google AI : St. Augustine did not explicitly teach the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" (OSAS) in the way that some Protestant denominations understand it today, but his writings on the necessity of God's grace and...

The Gnostics taught it, and the Church, refuting the Gnostics, refuted OSAS for the first few hundred years. Later, Augustine "Christianized" OSAS. He had been a Gnostic previously. It's interesting to note, though, that unbelief comes through sin--sin hardens the heart, and turns it into a...

We've gone through this already. I gave my responses, you differed.

I don't know that I believe that people will be saved as long as they trust God. What makes that difficult to understand is that we will be justified by our works in the coming judgment--and people who sin are condemned not justified (Ro 14:23). So, it's like, there is a way of viewing this that...

Yep. To me, it's just reading the Bible. I wouldn't be holding to these ideas for no reason. Paul exclaims "how far past finding out are His ways". He said that because he knew the Scriptures and couldn't figure them out (without revelation). God's Word is just not that easy to understand...

Yep, as stated, I don't know how to reconcile all of these things--one thing I won't do is be dishonest with myself, throw some of the doctrines out, just so I can think i found a consistent coherent conclusion.

We've already discussed them at length--we differ.

Sure did, yet, I can't help seeing, throughout Scripture, that the upcoming judgment on how we have lived as Christians is the final word on whether we will retain eternal life. Matthew says it (Mt 18, 25), Paul says it (Ro 2), Hebrews says it (Heb 3, 10), James says it (Ja 2), John says it (Jn...