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1. We're discussing the Bible, so we have to stick to the Bible. 2. "Proskuneo" was an act a man did in the passages I raised, it wasn't an "address" or "title". 3. As far as making a firm conclusion: you're not in control, and I'm more than happy to go before God (on this issue) and ask for...

For someone who does not want people to think He is God, Christ, at the very least, plays around with that distinction quite a bit... he lets a man "worship" him, he says "I am", says men should honor the Son as they honor the Father, and doesn't correct Thomas when he calls Christ "God".

I don't know that your interpretation is trustworthy here. You have to give me some examples. OK, but the entire discussion is on whether Christ is to be considered "God", in some sense, so you cannot simply presuppose the correctness of your view, and then say, "See why my view is correct...

Interestingly, your first "Pope", Peter, interpreted Jesus's teaching there as referring to "words of eternal life"--because "the Word became flesh", believing His Words is "eating Christ's flesh" ("your words were found and I ate them"), and faith confers eternal life.

Obviously, though, the Samaritan woman was asking about how to worship God in a religious sense--and Jesus answered that, yes, the religious worship of God had been happening in Jerusalem, but that a time was coming when people would worship, religiously, God in spirit and truth... this is not a...

I'm grateful for many of you, from both sides, involving yourselves in this discussion, bc many of you raise such good points.

@The Learner Clarification : I wasn't asking @Spyder a rhetorical question. I literally don't know what to make of the evidence. :jest: I find strong arguments for both sides, and can't arrive at a conclusion either way.

@Spyder What does it mean for Christ to be "equal with God"--and to be worshiped as God the Father is worshiped (proskuneo) and honored as God the Father is honored--yet without Christ being God?

What do you make of the fact that Jesus says that true "worshipers" (proskynētai) will "worship" (proskynēsousin) the Father, and that this is the "worship" (prosekynēsen) that is offered Jesus?

I've heard it interpreted "an age of", not "everlasting". NT Wright said this. Paul refers to "ages to come". This would make sense of Jesus's statement, "Whoever blasphemes the Spirit cannot be forgiven--he will not be forgiven in this age or in the age to come": 1) if all sin results in...

The "pre-incarnate" Christ, or how ever people want to talk about that--"What God was, the Word was".

It seems, from one angle, Jesus is the faithful witness about God, telling us what He has seen, and is, in some sense, equal with God (Jn 1:1, Jn 5:18; Php 2:6), yet, not God.

No one has seen God + the Word incarnated and was seen by men = the Word is not God?

Nah, I don't rely on Revelation to establish a doctrine. No one understands Revelation. Everybody has their own personal interpretation (which tend to sound reasonable at first, but fall apart upon scrutiny). Not unless you have witnesses from other texts to corroborate--and even the it's dicey...

Right, and I'm saying it is plausible that that was what was meant by "...for you have been with Me from the beginning", because John is self-referential, and he has used the phrase "In the beginning" before (John 1:1). Granted, he uses it elsewhere, but it is not by mistake that John used it in...

Yeah, no one had ascended to the Father but Christ. I agree. Again and again, however, it speaks of names written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the Foundation of the earth--that is what I am talking about when I say it sounds like the referent for "you have been with Me from the beginning"...

Do you really think I meant to be say "the Apostles were physically hanging out with Jesus from before the foundation of the world"? You must have, since that's what you argued against. I said "in some sense" we've "been with Him from the beginning", and then I mentioned having been "written in...

Thanks. It's true--a lot of people have perpetual knee jerk reactions to their favorite doctrines being questioned, so you really can't even discuss anything with them. I'm undecided on this question, bc I think there are strong points for both sides. Thanks again.

You "believe" in satan, clearly. You are doomed. Repent of your sin and turn to Christ through His Word. Now I'm done talking with you. Your delusion is terrifying.

Nah, Christians were despised and persecuted in ancient Rome, but they didn't commit suicide, because they had clear consciences. That's the difference. Gays' own consciences cry out against them in condemnation--that's why they crave everyone's approval.