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No, I mean the talk about vomit that you posted.

No. But we do not see God ruling and leading Israel in those chapters either. So if you claim GOD gathered one particular nation you need to do more than give general verses about how wicked men are allowed to rule by God. What is it you think Hab says? And as for 'pelageian', sorry that means...

Rudeness aside bro, I think that God allows the vilest of men to rule in this sinful world, in many cases. Someone has to be there to keep law and order and have things run. That is true in the middle east as well. So I would not claim that God brought the leaders we have now, or ever had, so...

Right, so you could say red China is ordained by God. That does not mean God brought all the people there in 1963. Nor does it mean the secular nation of Israel was brought there by God.

I was mainly addressing issues regardless of who shoots them out. Right, and the point was that not all chapters with prophesy are in chronological order. If a chapter flashes back to an event after having already spoken about the future that is fine.

Sorry if I assumed you were attempting to address the topic. We all know that. Why mention something with no bearing on the issue here? The issue is whether God gathered them there or not. Of course they will be there in the end. In other words 'Go get em Russia and allies, they are there and...

No. When you claim some so called victories of a secular nation are and must be due to the direct hand of God in fulfillment of specific prophesies, we can and should compare this with the rest of the bible for context. When God restores and protects the remnant of Israel who are saved, do you...

There will be dead people both when Jesus returns to destroy the wicked and rule the earth, as well as a thousand years later when fire burns up the wicked of that day. (if the fire even leaves any remains at all) When we read about certain events being referred to, we should know when that...

Can you cite a scripture that talks about 'ethnic' anyone? As for all Israel shall be saved, there is no question as to who that is. It is not Mennonites. It is not Muslims, guess who it is? In case there is any doubt they are most often associated with a city called Jerusalem and area.

Then you have no point. When God wipes out their enemies and protects, comforts, and restores them, they will have no enemies any longer. They will be ruling (be ruled by God, and helping God rule). Trying to say that the arm of their flesh saved them or was actually 'God's arm' in a clever...

Still no idea what your incoherent post is supposed to mean. I have said that when God brings them back we all will know. Therefore they brought themselves back there in 1948 as far as I can tell.

Did you string random verses together in hopes it would prove your fantasy? Perhaps if you think you have some point in all this you can post it in articulate English?

Either God gathers them or not. When He does we will know. Great. So? That has what to do with people who claim God gathered Israel there today? Nothing in eze 38 says God gathered them to be invaded. When He gathers them HE invades! Of course they are there, but don't say it is because...

So what in the discourse is it that I do not understand?

That is after the 1000 years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the...

No, they were not. There is a final several years of history, the last week of Daniel that is for dealing with Israel and having a remnant saved. Then that remnant, which is all of Israel that is still alive alive at the time will ge gathered by God Himself, and given that promised land as...

Ah, so there we have the problem. Diagnosed. By the way God promised to restore Israel to the land and wipe out their enemies, do you think that is you that He restores to that land?

In the early church day, and in history and today, they are. However the believing remnant of Israel that are saved in the end are still Israel. The church has been long gone. After the church is gone and all Israel gets saved they are not the church are they?

Nope. All that brings out is that they are not all believers. Only the saved Jews of course are possibly children of the promise. No one gets to do an end run around Christ. When all Israel gets saved they will be those for whom the promises were made about being protected, regathered, etc...

I think the church is the church and Israel is Israel.