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That's one of the things about premillennialism that doesn't make sense. How can Matthew 25:31-46 be a different event from Revelation 20:11-15 when it clearly shows the wicked, which are those whose names are not written in the book of life, are cast into the everlasting fire when Jesus returns...

Yes, I think the passage you referenced in that post can support what the Revelation 2:22-23 passage is saying, but I would say Revelation 2:22-23 clearly explains itself. It's very straightforward. It indicates that Jesus was going to send great tribulation that would kill Jezebel and those who...

I can't disagree. He refuses to acknowledge it even when you quote him and prove that he said something that he claims to not have said. And he blatantly misrepresents your view (as he has done with mine several times before) of Matthew 24:21. You have always said you see it as God's wrath...

Right. It's very noticeable that pre-tribs are the only ones who ever feel the need to make those convoluted charts. There are no charts in scripture. We can understand what is written in scripture without charts. It seems that they make these charts in an effort to make it look like they know...

This is a great point. How can anyone be led away captive to all nations at the end of the great tribulation when he believes that Jesus returns at the end of the great tribulation He referenced in Matthew 24:21? No one will be led way captive anywhere once He returns. He needs to address this...

More ranting from you. And you complain about others? Look at how you talk to others. Nothing but childish rants. What are you intending to say about the dead in Christ rising first? How does that prove a pre-trib rapture? What are you saying that the dead in Christ rise first before? The...

Oh, how exciting. As if I needed this? No. I know what you were saying and I disagree. Just accept that. Yeah, I know what you were intending to say. I'm a big football fan, so I don't need this explained to me. I disagree that your analogy here is relevant to how salvation works. As you...

That is NOT what he believes and he has never stated anything close to that. Nowhere did Marty say that what happened in 70 AD was "great tribulation Christ tells His disciples they must endure". He has always said that "70 AD is the wrath of God coming against an apostate nation". You are...

Are you trying to claim that God's wrath can never be called tribulation? I've already shown you otherwise with Revelation 2:22. And there are passages like these, also... Romans 2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the...

Then why do you not allow for the possibility of "great tribulation" in Matthew 24:21 to be God's wrath? Especially when Luke 21:23 describes it as "great distress in the land and wrath upon this people"? Look at what you're saying here. This comes across as if you are differentiating between...

Honestly, I couldn't care less if you strongly disagree. I don't buy into your hyper-futurist approach to end times doctrine. You neglect to see how the book of Revelation defines the holy city and how the rest of scripture defines the temple of God. Earthly Jerusalem is NOT the holy city! How...

And what about all of your many accusations of the post-trib brethren like me? Somehow, it's okay for you, but not for others? Why are you such a hypocrite? You are the one who runs away when challenged to a debate. WPM challenged you to a debate about the relevant scriptures and you didn't...

The new MAN is neither male nor female. It's simply a reference to the church consisting of Jew and Gentile believers together as one body of Christ and one "holy temple in the Lord", as Paul explained in Ephesians 2:11-22. Why are you trying to place physical characteristics on a spiritual...

Because of their faith, just like the thief on the cross and everyone else was allowed to go there. I disagree, but whatever. Not going to spend time arguing with you about this. I believe the 144,000 includes them, but is not only them. We agree that they will be among those who are with Jesus...

To be fair, she did acknowledge that she made a mistake on that (see post #7), which I can respect. As amils, we, of course, disagree with a lot of what she says, but I do appreciate her willingness to acknowledge her mistake.

You have decided that "great tribulation" can't refer to God's wrath, but that is exactly how it is described. Jesus Himself said He would bring great tribulation upon them if they did not repent of their wickedness. God's wrath occurs after He provides time for people to repent first and that...

Okay. I disagree because the holy city is defined as the new Jerusalem in the book of Revelation (Revelation 21:2). The holy city new Jerusalem symbolically refers to "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev 21:9-10), which is the church. So, I see Revelation 11:2 as referring to the heathen (the Greek...

Yes. But, what is described in Matthew 24:23-26 is not included in this account, so that's why there's a gap in this account that isn't there in the other accounts. Can you tell me what your understanding is of Luke 21:20-24 and what you think the times of the Gentiles refers to?

Do you think that describes Jezebel and others who practiced sexual immorality and ate food sacrificed to idols? It does not. It describes those in the church as a whole and Jesus goes on in verse 20 to criticize them for allowing and tolerating that kind of unrepentant wicked behavior that...