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Again, that's not what the verse says. You can't fall away from the living God if you never knew him. At least try to be consistent with what the verse says.

Nope, you can't depart from something you never had. This does not refer to false "Christians." And as for your last sentence, this is refuted by Paul telling us to not fall into false beliefs and if we do Christ will be of no use to us. I'm not talking about merely "sinning". I'm talking about...

Why do people so want to believe Jesus wasn't God? I don't get it.

Yep. I got spanked and we spanked our kids when called for. When? When blatant disobedience happens. Some kids rarely if ever need it, because they are more compliant than others. For some, merely stating what they did wrong is sufficient. Taking away privileges, sending to his room when he...

God chooses all first. Prevenient grace goes out to all. It is divine grace that precedes human decision. In other words, God will start showing love to that individual at a certain point in his lifetime. If we respond to that grace by choosing him, we become part of the group of people called...

God chose Israel to be the line of the messiah. Of course, his will was that they all be saved. Were they? Certainly not. And these promises are for all who are in Christ, not necessarily Israel by birth but by the second birth. The Messiah is the Saviour of all who currently believe in him, of...

No, no, no. “Now you dwellers in Jerusalem and people of Judah, judge between me and my vineyard. 4 What more could have been done for my vineyard than I have done for it? When I looked for good grapes, why did it yield only bad? The grapes were his people. It's obvious. They were...

Israel was also the vessels of wrath, because of their rebellion. Notice God had mercy on them and was still giving them room to repent, instead of judging them for their rebellion. The vessels of mercy are the gentiles God is now bringing the gospel to, and any Jews who responded to his call...

Paul was quoting that scripture. Look it up and you will see that's obvious.

Already answered: As I said before, this is all about God bringing about the plan of salvation through Israel. It's not about individuals chosen for salvation. We don't know if Esau was ultimately a believer or not. God's purpose and election here is that Israel was chosen as the nation that...

Yes, Esau resisted God's will. Was it God's will for him to give away his birthright for stew? Israel hardened themselves first, was that God's will? I already showed you that God says he did everything he could to reach them but they refused. Jesus says the same thing. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem...

Then you need to read your Bible. Because it clearly says is many places that belief comes before salvation. Yes, it's in response to the Spirit. Your scheme has God making every decision for you. That is divine determinism/fatalism/irresistible grace.

And you have taken that to mean they can't be saved if they are not of God, so yes, you are claiming that individual election is true.

Yes, they all did, once Jesus revealed himself to them. The Jews didn't. I don't see your point here.

Where in the Bible are non believers saved? In your eternal security scheme, a person can believe once, be saved, become a God hater, and still be eternally secure. That's not consistent with scripture, where the terms "believers" is used over and over again to describe the saints. Eternal...

If you can not see it, you aren't trying. God says he did everything he could to get his chosen people to obey him but they would not. And yet you claim God just chooses to give some that ability and not others. Yes I meant he chose Jacob over Esau for a job, not for salvation. With Noah it's...

The clay is Israel. Again, look at what Paul was quoting from: Jeremiah 18; Jeremiah 18 1 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD: 2 "Go down to the potter's house, and there I will give you my message." 3 So I went down to the potter's house, and I saw him working at the wheel. 4...

To understand Paul's whole argument here, it will help immensely if you were to look up all the Old Testament passages Paul alludes to. In this case: Malachi 1;3“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill...

Tong, sir, you have regrettably swallowed the calvinist interpretation Hook line & sinker. Don't you see that Paul's answer to the mystery objector confirms that we all resist God? How can a man talk back to God otherwise? This objector is the same one who in chapter 3 says we should sin more so...

You are complicating salvation. Those things do not save a person. And it's beside the point for this discussion. By order I mean belief comes first, then salvation. Whether you have to believe specifically in Christ's deity is a different discussion. Whether you repent at this time is another...