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  1. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    You ignored all the verses I quoted. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. Why did Jesus give the gospel to people you claim could not become his? So that they might listen, so that they would become known by him ( which happens at thier moment of belief) so that...
  2. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    The verb foreknow is often understood as “to know, perceive, learn or understand beforehand, to take note of.” This word is used in Romans 8:29, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son.” But there is a another and much simpler option that is often...
  3. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    Why do the fatalists always believe they are among the predestined? If you are correct, chances are you are born for damnation and only think you are saved John Calvin believed God temporarily enlightens some then drops them into hell anyway. " Oops, just kidding, you weren't really elect."...
  4. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    Yes, And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ Acts 2:21 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. Romans 5:18 Men were saved...
  5. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    Lol, you truly are reading it backwards, by assuming that some are already destined to be sheep. Where does it say that? What is hard to understand about " whoever"? In your world, does "whoever" mean "whoever is already saved before he is born"? Who are the sheep from another flock? Gentiles...
  6. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    God gave men free will. God is the Potter and where does that concept come from? Jeremiah 18 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 “Go down to the potter’s house, and there I will give you my message.” 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the...
  7. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    They will go to hell because they did not choose God. "Choose you this day who you will serve." Your problem is starting off with the assumption that God doesn't' call all to salvation. If man sinned only because God left him no other option, then God could not be considered just.
  8. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    Sure and his sheep are those who enter through him, as I've already shown. You have to read the passage backward to get to your conclusion.
  9. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    Again, do a little digging. Pharaoh had the same choice as everyone. He was hardened after he hardened his own heart. It was a result of his rebellion. Neither of these verses is claiming that God hardens people unconditionally or chooses some for damnation. If God causes sin, that would make...
  10. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    I see no difference between saying we are chosen according to his foreknowledge and saying we have free will to join the group called "elect." Because God knows we will believe, yes, but his knowledge doesn't cause our belief.
  11. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    Not if he falls away into false teaching and becomes reprobate. Is any Christian perfectly like Jesus in this life? Of course not. Even this predestination is conditional on our listening and following.
  12. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    On the contrary. First, Jesus is using a figure of speech. We aren't literally sheep. Thank goodness. Sheep are not the brightest animals. But he plainly states that anyone who enters through him will be saved. There's that pesky unlimited atonement, right in your proof text chapter.
  13. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    Really? You are going to use a proverb as a proof text? Regardless: The point is, God brings the wicked to his judgment, a very basic biblical doctrine in complete harmony with Arminian theology. This verse does not support the idea that God creates people for the purpose of them doing evil so...
  14. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    If no rescue is available, I am destined to die. If there's only one option, then why would God blame us for choosing that option? That's absurd.
  15. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    I don't understand why you think these verses support limited atonement. They don't even imply it. 7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate...
  16. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    Yet you take the other verses as present tense when they clearly arent? Who would these Roman Christians think of when the apostle Paul spoke of “the saints? Not themselves, but the saints that they had learned about.
  17. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    These verbs are all aorist active indicative tenses. They indicate that the action of the verb has already taken place with respect to the subject of the verb. Now, who did Paul just mention? "because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Who were the saints? The...
  18. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    You were doing ok until the last couple sentences. Previous to all that, I already quoted the way to become a sheep. It's not unconditional. They are the one who enter through him and they are the listening and following ones.
  19. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    This is referring to the ot saints. It's a rear view mirror look at God's faithfulness to those who he called for various tasks. Those he knew in previous times ( foreknew) he predestined to be conformed to Christ's image. This isn't telling us they had no choice, it's revealing how God...
  20. R

    Saved Or Predestined ???

    No, it's just plain logic. Does he have another choice? Can he be saved? If not, he's predestined for death through no fault of his own.