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nope. we are not there. 4 Horsemen have not arrived AC has not arrived or revealed. The judgement of the 4 horsemen has not happened. The mark has not come. If we assume mid trib rapture (what you guys now call "postribprewrath" Then what Jesus describes as the setting is wrong. "buying...

In the rapture Only The Dead In Christ are risen . It is not the general Resurrection after the millennium

You said earlier that the 144 k are gathered AFTER The rapture. Now you place the rapture at the second coming on white horses.

I do not as a rule do any personal attacks. I assume you are a postribber. I have yet to see any postrib rapture verses... None of the other members have posted one. Maybe you possibly have one? "I oppose the pretrib rapture" I see this a lot. That is called comdemnation before investigation...

I am not aware of the 144k being referred to as under the altar

The 4 horsemen mark the beginning of the gt. Judgement on earth. The time of the gentiles fulfilled. God switches to the Jewish remnant. Normal life, then the rapture. The ac is the white horse rider, the false messiah. With noah and lot there is no "prejudgment" ,then wrath. With the "one...

Rev 14 is unscriptural?

You have the dead in Christ raised AFTER the gathering in rev 14. Your theory is poorly thought out

I am waiting for anyone to post a verse pointing to a postrib rapture.

not only that, but they fail MISERABLY at not even acknowledging that the 144 k are FIRSTFRUITS , Or a portion of a whole. It is so silly because that AUTOMATICALLY points to 2 raptures, or two SEPARATE harvests. IOW, the 144k can ONLY be Jews, because nothing else fits. Kinda like it plainly says.

You blew a hole in their doctrine so huge an aircraft carried could fit through it. I chuckled at their attempts to reframe the advents of Jesus and firstfruit Jews.

Fulfillment would be agreeing that the Jews PROPHESIED to be grafted BACK IN, is TO BE fulfilled as the WORD OF GOD states. You can post against it. You will never change it with labels and omissions

Dave is backed into a theological corner. His DOCTRINE fails if there is indeed a LITERAL 144k. What a quandary. For a bible based man, truth, or the word of God, need not be changed. Our job is to read it, report it, and enjoy what is written in harmony. Systematic theology. We test fit...

It is called replacement theology. Those wishing to erroneously claim the church replaces Gods promise to a covenant people. Illustrated in the ot where the wayward wife is pursued. Israel is the wife gone awhoring.

He vividly spoke of the Jews being grafted in ( around rom 11) What do you do with those verses you recklessly call "mess". Your fleshly attempt at omitting verses is unbiblical.

The dead raised at the rapture is pretrib. Only the dead In Christ are raised. After the mil is the GWT Judgement The general resurrection where all the rest are resurrected.

Not a world event. It is local to israel. The world event is after the mil at the GWT Judgement. Two different dynamics.

...and makes a postrib rapture impossible.

Nope The 144 are gathered first as firstfruit Jews. It is a no brainer thet the second harvest in rev 14 is a Jewish harvest of rom 11. Vivid and self explanatory. The harvest you speak of is the GWT Judgement AFTER the mil. The chaff is burned. That would the LOF after the mil.

Has any non pretribber unpacked rev 14? Or, are you able to point me to some postrib teacher on youtube that mentions rev 14? Would love to see their views. ( i would be amazed if they mention what destroys their doctrine)