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  1. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    What do you mean, "again"! No I don't disagree with what Jesus said, although you're wrong, Jesus didn't say "than go to hell", he said: Matthew 5:30 (WEB): (30) If your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off, and throw it away from you. For it is more profitable for you that one of...
  2. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    So you are disagreeing with Eccliastes 9:5 then. 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV): (16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
  3. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    It looks like only the NIV translates it as "their name is forgotten"; most translations render it as "for the memory of them is forgotten". But yes, as well as believing "the dead don't know anything" but we should also believe the second part, "They have no further reward, even the memory of...
  4. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    There are some people alive today who have been dead and and miraclulously restored to life again, e.g. Dr Sean George, who make no mention of being alive when they were dead (which is a contradiction of terms!). Likewise Lazarus, whom Jesus raied to life after he had been dead for 4 days (John...
  5. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Ecclesiastes is a wisdom book and is not classified as poetry. There may be a couple of poetic passages in it, but the verse I quoted was not poetic. Psalms are classified as poetic, but also as wisdom. Jesus quoted from the Psalms more than any other Old Testament book. The important thing...
  6. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    No it doesn't show that dead people are alive! As Jesus said, John 5:28-29 (WEB): (28) Don’t marvel at this, for the hour comes, in which all that are in the tombs will hear his voice, (29) and will come out; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done...
  7. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    This is poetic writing - a song. It should not be taken literally, unlike literal verses such as: Ecclesiastes 9:5 (WEB): (5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead don’t know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for their memory is forgotten. Psalm 146:3-4 (WEB)...
  8. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    You're just repeating yourself and quoting the same Scripture from the same translation, which I've already pointed out is the only translation which has added "So they were not still dead"! Young's Literal Translation says, "God is not a God of dead men, but of living". Adding "so they were...
  9. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    You didn't quote a passage, you just quoted a verse, Matthew 22:32, which is only part of a sentence. To quote all of Jesus' sentence, Matthew 22:31-32 (WEB): (31) But concerning the resurrection of the dead, haven’t you read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, (32) ‘I am the God of...
  10. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    What translation is that from? Is it the ERV (Easy To Read Version)? Of the 62 English translations listed by the Bible Gateway website, the ERV is the only one to have added the words "So they were not still dead". You shouldn't trust a translation that adds to the Word of God! Those added...
  11. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Huh? I just quoted two verses of Scripture. What's that got to do with gnosticism?
  12. keithr

    Made of Show of Them Openly

    Here is Albert Barnes' notes on this verse: Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled - Plundered as a victorious army does a conquered country. Notes, Col_2:8. The terms used in this verse are all military, and the idea is, that Christ has completely subdued our enemies by his death. A complete...
  13. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    1 John 2:22 (WEB): (22) Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 4:3 (WEB): (3) and every spirit who doesn’t confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the...
  14. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    You don't seem to take any notice of what I write. To repeat what I wrote in post #242, less than 3 days ago, I am not, nor have ever been, a JW. Nobody can forbid me to read whatever I want to read. It's not incorrect. I was just giving a very brief overview, not detailing everything, but...
  15. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Right, Revelation 17:18 (WEB): (18) The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.” Rome and the Vatican was/is a city that reigns over kings of other nations - it's referring to Papacy and the Roman Catholic church. It's nothing to do with the great...
  16. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    You seem to be assuming that the descriptions of the beast, etc. are descriptions of events during the Great tribulation. I don't think that they are. The book of Revelation was a revelation from Jesus showing "his servants the things which must happen soon" (Revelation 1:1). It gives an...
  17. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Why do you think "the beast" is a man? There is no mention of a man in the description - Revelation 13 (WEB): (1) Then I stood on the sand of the sea. I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads. On his horns were ten crowns, and on his heads, blasphemous names...
  18. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    You said that verses 4 & 6 are referring to tribulation saints, and that there is "No mention of the rapture or church saints", so I said there is no mention of the tribulation saints either!
  19. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Why mention the Watchtower? I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses teach what I have been writing (and I am not, nor have ever been, a JW). Being immortal doesn't mean that you have no beginning, just that you will have no end. Christians are to become immortal, but all of them/us have a...
  20. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Well the Codex Sinaiticus doesn't have Revelation verse 5 at all. It says (from Codex Sinaiticus): 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and the power of judging was given to them; and I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God...