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  1. Butch5

    Christianity vs America and the world

    Most of the world does have it backwards. Following Jesus is hard and one must lay down their life.
  2. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    How do you make that work with Scripture? If it's not on earth then there must be two different places where the wicked are burned up. I agree that they are not the bodies of those in the great white throne judgment. That is at the end of the millennium. I do believe it is the same fire. If it's...
  3. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    I'm not even sure anymore. I'm in several discussions and sometimes it's hard to keep them all straight.
  4. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    I think there will be day and night everywhere, it's just that the glory of God will be so bright it will out shine the sun and it will not stop so the city will never be dark.
  5. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    Why do you think 4:8 and 7:15 are figurative while 29:10 is literal? It seems to me that 'day and night' indicate a continuous event. It's like we would say, he jogs 24/7. If something is done night and day it doesn't stop. Rev. 7:16 says the sun shall not light on them anymore nor any heat. It...
  6. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    What passage are you referring to when you say John uses the phrase figuratively? The passage in Acts 3 is part of a sermon, however, Peter is explaining when Christ would return and indicates that He won't return until the restoration of all things. It seems to me that all things will be...
  7. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    That's true. If forever means eternity, how can you add more time to that?
  8. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    Hi Logabe, I know there won't be many who listen but there are usually a few who really want to understand. When we look at how many times aion is used in Scripture of things that end, I think it's quite clear that the word doesn't mean forever or eternal. I think the problem comes from...
  9. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    The resurrection is mentioned in the parable but that's not the point of the parable. Jesus wasn't speaking about the afterlife, he was speaking of the demise of the priesthood. If one follows the flow of conversation from chapter 14 through 16 Jesus never says anything at all about the...
  10. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    But you the phrase isn't saying eternal. An age is an undefined period of time. The phrase ages of ages denotes something continuous as does day and night. However, that doesn't mean that the something will be eternal. An age could be 100 years of a million years, which it is must be defined by...
  11. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    Oz, Look at the details. Why are we told that the rich man was dressed in purple and fine linen? Why are we told that the rich man has 5 brothers. These details wouldn't matter if this was about life after death. The priesthood wore purple and fine linen. The Priesthood were the Levites, Levi...
  12. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    It's possible, however, since the Tree of Life is spoken of in very beginning of Scripture I think it is the same thing in Revelation. Regarding Paul's statement, while he may not tell us how one is immortal in that passage, he does tell us that the Father alone has immortality. He said that...
  13. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    Hi OzSpen, I would submit that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is not about the afterlife at all, but rather about the demise of the priesthood. You suggested that the rich man was was an unbeliever, yet the Scriptures don't say that. Actually, the Scriptures don't say that either man...
  14. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    I don't see what "day and night" has to do with whether something is eternal or not. "Day and night" just seems to me to indicate a continuous event. It seems to be an event that continues until it ends. If something was eternal then it would be continuous without end, if it wasn't then it would...
  15. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    It seems Rev 21:23 and 22:5 are speaking of the Holy city. The city has no need of the sun or moon because it is illuminated by the Glory of God. I don't see any reason why the sun and moon wouldn't be seen in the rest of the world. With God's glory in the city it would be continuously...
  16. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    They're the same the words in both verses, I believe they mean day and night, literally. What is it that you're getting at?
  17. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    Hi ATP, As I understand them they are literally a day and night.
  18. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    Hi Jim, How is one conscious when dead? Aren't the dead unconscious. Regarding the Greek word "aionios" I agree that it is absurd to use the word for an eternal existence in one part of the sentence and an instantaneous termination of existence in another. However, this argument assumes that...
  19. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    I think the question is whether man will be immortal in and of himself or if it is because God will continue to give him life. I submit it is the second, thus the need for the tree of life.