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and yet the postrib rapture doctrine is unaware of Jesus declaration of multiple comings, and rev 14 gathering would then be ahead of the "dead in Christ resurrection" rapture . Because that would place the dead is Christ resurrection AFTER the rev 14 gathering, Making 1 thes 4 a lie. There is...

The 5 foolish ran out of oil. That is the only difference between them and the Wise virgins. Oil represents the Holy Spirit. The wise were on fire and intimate. The foolish were carnal and not as committed. They stay behind and are martyred because they refuse the mark.

No red flag WE both agree he returns after the gt. The red flag is that see a rapture that is not here. The angels are gathering from heaven. that is after the gt. Then Jesus speaks of another coming later in mat 24 that is BEFORE THE FLOOD... Before the trib You are verifying the pretrib...

Correct I was saying that it would be wrong to espouse a doctrine that NEEDED it to be the other way around. And yes he removed his people first.

I already told you I am COMFORTABLE with either reading of it. What is neat, is how you attack me personally calling me apostate when I WENT TO THE GREEK that literally translates it "from standing" Depart. Departing from mosses teaching Departing from the faith, Depart from this earth. Stop...

I have debated postribbers on this parable. 99% of them actually change the components of the parable. I am glad I am not forced to follow a doctrine that misrepresents Gods word. I get it though. There is such an investment in that postrib rapture doctrine, they are trapped in it.

David in NJ If you disagree, point me to the truth. Mocking me tells me you can not.

The postrib doctrine MUST change the one taken prophecy into something other than the rapture. It is hugely, profoundly, pointing out the rapture and the same ratio taken as the virgins parable

In the postrib doctrine they have trapped themselves in several impossibilities. 1) they say "only one coming" That is DIRECTLY against the bible (that alone puts any notion of a postrib rapture to rest. 2) They correctly declare with paul that the dead in Christ are resurrected before the...

So true. That is why I am bible first. I need no teachers, as the new testament pattern is being led by the spirit. So the bible authenticates the Spirit. We can not go against the bible. The verses I bring are in no way taught in the postrib doctrine. We are to change our doctrine should it...

Well i did see the thief part, but i wasnt sure. Thank you.

Noah rose above the mountains in the ark. (same as in the pretrib rapture. Ark is a type of heaven, and Noah entered PREFLOOD/PRETRIB. Noah RETURNED to earth post trib/ post flood. Your statement is incorrect and you modified the components of the story. Jesus ONLY used Noah as a prejudgent...

Fill me in.

OK,yes. Noah rose over a mile into the sky via the ark, while the trib happened underneath him. Then post flood, post gt, Noah returned to earth to set up a new world. Thanks for that heavy revvvy..LOL

except there is not enough there to support that, nor does the reader get any of that context, as it is conjecture. You are apparently basing all basis for doctrine on "one coming". however, mat 24 and 25 ,as well as rev 14 declare multiple comings. I think you need to rethink your position.

bingo

Pretrib rapture is easy to debate. Jesus taught it.

Jesus himself indicated 3 comings. One before the gt one after and one in rev 14 which is during the gt,

I think you would need Jesus examples to read Lot was removed AFTER sodom was destroyed, and Noah removed AFTER the flood. That dilemma is insurmountable. Not to mention that you are placing the dead in Christ resurrected AFTER the Messianic Jews are raptured during the gt in rev 14 Making 1...

You just tried to make that verse indicate the rapture is after the gt. Re read it. ANGELS gather... not Jesus They gather the elect FROM HEAVEN... not earth. Definately not the gathering of the bride at the rapture.(half the church) Postrib rapture is poorly thought out. Not in the bible at...