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propitiation noun pro·pi·ti·a·tion | \ prō-ˌpi-shē-ˈā-shən \ Definition of propitiation 1: the act of gaining or regaining the favor or goodwill of someone or something

Before Moses, God spoke with people directly. After Moses, there was a Bible (called the Torah).

For the record, I have heard God speak audibly (once). It proves NOTHING! The proof is in the fruit of the Spirit.

I agree (for the saved, the unsaved die in their sins). But there is no “transfer of wrath” mentioned. The Father loves the Son, wicked men crucified Jesus, Jesus permitted and accepted it to redeem us. Wrath is poured on the guilty by God.

John 3:31-36 [NASB95] 31 "He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 "What He has seen and heard, of that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 "He who has received His testimony...

I WANTED to find the verse that proved the “wrath of God poured on Christ who took the punishment that God wanted to inflict on us” teaching that I had HEARD. I have searched HARD. That is just not what the actual verses in the Bible say. It is what people “read between the lines” that the...

I agree. That also includes telling people that the Father was angrily punishing the Son (wrath), when the Father was angry at sin (requiring propitiation) and the Son chose to suffer to free us (redeemer).

I created a new topic on WRATH: The WRATH of God poured out on Christ … where?

WRATH: strong vengeful anger (Merriam-Webster) There is a good conversation to be had on the subject of “Jesus and the wrath of God”. WRATH implies punishment inflicted in anger. Where is the scripture verse that ever actually says that God (the Father) was EVER angrily punishing Jesus in...

I WANTED to find the verse that proved the “wrath of God poured on Christ who took the punishment that God wanted to inflict on us” teaching that I had HEARD. I have searched HARD. That is just not what the actual verses in the Bible say. It is what people “read between the lines” that the...

I agree. That also includes telling people that the Father was angrily punishing the Son (wrath), when the Father was angry at sin (requiring propitiation) and the Son chose to suffer to free us (redeemer).

Could you provide a dictionary definition of “wrath” so we can avoid talking past one another? As I understand the definition of the word “wrath”, if there there is no anger, then there is no wrath. Therefore, if “The Father was never angry with Jesus.” then “The Father never [poured His...

I think the MOTIVATION is something other than “wrath”. Wrath appears to be reserved for the enemies of God at the Final Judgement.

Since our host is not worth the effort of conversing with, we might as well speak amongst ourselves … There is actually a good conversation to be had on the subject of “Jesus and the wrath of God”. WRATH implies punishment inflicted in anger. Where is the scripture verse that ever actually...

Really? From just page 1 of this discussion: You have falsely accused me. In response, I forgive you and I choose to walk away.

Nope … every Muslim, Hindu and Atheist has faith without any use for the Christian bible. One needs the Bible (a love letter from God) to learn of this invisible Creator that has chosen to love us and has introduced us to Himself [John 6:44] (He knew us before He created the world).

What laws? You set the guideline that we use no Bible, so what law do you keep that is not found in the Bible?

Ok, then PROVE you have faith or stand condemned of having no faith (in anything). I await your proof.

Jesus’ words are the TRUE GOD and eternal life? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's.” - Matthew 16:23

Why would anyone want to do that? What would be the potential purpose of such an exercise? How would anyone “prove” something as metaphysical as “faith in God”? A mathematical proof? A logical proof? A scientific proof by empirical experimentation with repeatable results?