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  1. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    I believe quite often it is the case. I think modern Christians have been so indoctrinated into the use of proof texting that they don't even realize that it's happening. I don't necessarily think it's their fault as often they learn it right from the pulpit. They see Christian leaders espousing...
  2. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    The passage you quoted from John 16 was spoken to the apostles, it wasn't a universal statement that pertains to everyone. Here's where problems arise, many Christians claim that what they believe comes to them from the Holy Spirit, yet many of these same Christians believe opposing doctrines...
  3. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    Yes, if you look at history you can see what was believed by these different people groups. I think it's pretty clear that the prevalent idea among the Greek in Jesus' day was that of Plato. If you look at the history of the Jews they didn't, for the most part, believe that man was a spirit that...
  4. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    I reject the Greek idea of Hades. The Greek idea of Hades is that it is a place where the spirits or souls of the dead go. The Jews understood sheol or Hades to be the grave. So, to answer your question, no, I believe Tartarus is the lower part of Hades. I believe it is some place that God has...
  5. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    Went is a Greek participle, preached is the verb, that's not an opinion that is the grammar. That's just the way language is, it doesn't change based on what we think about it. You can look up what I said in a Greek grammar and see that that is the case with participles.
  6. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    HI ATP, When Scripture speaks of people speaking from Hell and such I believe it is being used metaphorically. We have to take these passages and understand them in a manner that is consistent with the rest of what the Scriptures say about the dead. We can see this metaphor being used right in...
  7. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    It seems you're defeating your own argument. If you believe the translators gave it their "best guess" then how can you say I'm wrong? However, as I said, the Greek text requires that the proclamation take place after the resurrection. the tense of the Greek participle is subject to the tense...
  8. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    No one said anything about angels repenting. Regarding the proclamation, it was after the resurrection. This is the only interpretation allowed by the Greek grammar. Also. I don't advocate soul sleep. I wan't debating this, I was simply answering questions for ATP. Others have injected their...
  9. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    It you follow the context of the argument it's pretty clear that being without a body is being naked. Paul's point in this is that he doesn't want to be as the Greek do.
  10. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    Hi ATP, I believe He was making a proclamation to the evil spirits in Tartarus. The KJV translates three different places as hell and it causes much confusion. There are, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus. Hades is the grave, Gehenna is the valley outside of Jerusalem and I submit the lake of fire...
  11. Butch5

    Soul sleep

    1 Peter 3:18-20 is not speaking of Christ preaching while He was dead. The order of events is, He was put to death, made alive, went, proclaimed to the spirits. The proclamation was made after He resurrected. The order I stated is required by the Greek grammar. 2 Cor 5:8 is not talking about a...
  12. Butch5

    Ezekiel 47:1-12 & Rev 22:1-5

    That's pretty much how I see it. I'll take a look at the link and let you know what I think.
  13. Butch5

    Ezekiel 47:1-12 & Rev 22:1-5

    I think it's going to be Gehenna, out side of Jerusalem. God said through Isaiah that those who come to worship Him will see the corpses.
  14. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    Life and death. I think He's contrasting the wonderful life the believer will receive with the death the unbeliever will receive. That life goes on as long as one can see.
  15. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    Hi ATP, Actually, I don't think Luke 16, the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man has anything to do with an afterlife. I believe it is a parable about the demise of the priesthood. I think the reason Jesus used "aionios" of both the punishment and the life of believers was to make a contrast...
  16. Butch5

    Ezekiel 47:1-12 & Rev 22:1-5

    I've head the idea of the Dead Sea being the Lake of fire, but I'm not sure.
  17. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    Hi ATP, Thanks! These questions I don't have an answer for. An age has to be determined by the context and I don't think wer'e told anywhere how long that will be. It could be for the 1000 years as that is the 7th day. Hi KingJ, I would submit that in that passage Jesus is alluding to...
  18. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    The phrase, "Lake of Fire" doesn't appear in any book except Revelation. John doesn't use the term in either his Gospel or his letters. This suggests to me that the term was given to him during the vision that is Revelation. Regarding Daniel 12:2 and Mathew 25:46, I believe the word...
  19. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    That's my point, the logical conclusion is that the Lake of Fire and Gehenna are the same place. Consider this, John, in the book of Revelation is the only one to use the term, "Lake of Fire". He didn't even use it in his Gospel. This suggests to me that the term didn't exist until John received...
  20. Butch5

    12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

    I don't know what you mean by a spiritual hell. There are three words translated by the English word hell, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus. 1. The don't prove it, what they do show that there are two places where the wicked are said to Go. This creates a problem since Jesus said they went to one...