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  1. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    Hi Martin, I pretty much agree. I would say, just for clarification that the Greek "Perfect Tense" is close to what you said. It is a past action, with results continuing to the present. That is the present at the time the statement was made. There is nothing in the "Perfect tense" that means...
  2. Butch5

    Gifts of the Spirit

    I’m not the only one, I showed that the apostle Paul did the same thing, are you saying he is wrong also? Romans 15:1-4 ( KJV ) We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification...
  3. Butch5

    Why Acts 2:38 is misunderstood ??

    Dan, you're not taking the adivse to rightly divide the word.
  4. Butch5

    Question born again

    Every person has to believe for themsleves.
  5. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    There's a lot of evidence to the contrary. However, the holy Spirit does work in an individual prior to regeneration. So, that need not be a reason to hold that position. John said, John 1:5-9 ( KJV ) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man...
  6. Butch5

    Gifts of the Spirit

    It's all in how one approachees the Spriptures. Regarding the gifts in 1 Corinthians Didaskolas said Paul says to us. Many Christians approach the Scriptures this way, If they see the words, us, our, or we, they apply it to themselves. I disagree with thus method of approaching the Scriptures...
  7. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    Hi Martin, I agree, if we say that everything Jesus taught is included in faith, which it actually is then I agree with faith alone. However, that is not what most American Christians mean by faith alone. The Greek word is "Pisteau" and it means to believe, but it carries the idea of belief...
  8. Butch5

    The Kingdom of God

    It's my understanding that the kingdom of God is here now in the believer and will be here physically in the future.
  9. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    It is not my purpose to upset you, however, if you feel you must end the discussion I understand. I would like to say that this is not an issue in the Scriptures but an issue of reasoning, of how we understand things. I would Like to say, no, I am not Catholic, however, I don’t consider myself...
  10. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    Hi Martin,You've hit on some key points. One is the Abrahamic covenant. You are correct that the promise was made before Abraham offered Isaac, however, I would suggest that it is at this point that God swore an oath to Abraham, that He would fulfill those promises. Paul (writer of Hebrews?)...
  11. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    An argument? how so? You may never have read the man, however, his teaching is that of the reformation, which is laced all through western Christianity. It is a simple matter, all you need to do is look at the history and see if what I've said is true. If you look at church history you will...
  12. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    I’ve given some commentaries at the end from those who were there. You’re not following a logical methodology. As I said we must take Scripture in context. Believing in Christ means to become a disciple. None of the apostles taught that someone could simply believe in Christ without becoming a...
  13. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    Ducky, I'm not judging anyone. I'm simply stating Scripture. Here is the problem, I've address many passages of Scripture that you and Rach have presented. I've put them in context and shown that they are not saying that people are saved apart from baptism. On the other hand, the passages that I...
  14. Butch5

    “The Lords Day” “The Day of the Lord” “In That day” All speak of the Same Time Period, NOT a Day of

    Hi Eccl, I have to disagree with you here, While I agree that the day of the Lord is a period in the future. I don't believe that what John wrote is speaking of the that time. Consider John's words, 'on the Lord's day'. None of the passages that you posted other than Rev 1:10 use the phrase the...
  15. Butch5

    Gifts of the Spirit

    I agree with it. I think that is Paul's point. I also believe that those three will continue until Christ returns and then faith and hope will no longer be necssary and Love will remain.
  16. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    Ducky, This isn't the way one exegete the Scriptures. How I was baptized has no bearing on the meaning of Scripture. If you feel what I've said is incorrect, then please address the passages of Scripture that I've posted and my exegesis of them. If you can show me I have misunderstood them I...
  17. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    No, I'm not. One reason I restricted my conversation to you is so that there would not be a bunch of posts where my comments may be misunderstood. What I have stated regarding baptism is this. I think we agree that the water does not save anyone, there is nothing speacial about it. I think we...
  18. Butch5

    When was the last time....

    That has been a tremendous asset. Since I began doing that I have learned much. As I said I was forced to look at the Scriptures when I was faced with opposing teachings. The funny thing is some of what both churches were teaching was not in Bible. Since I didn't know what was true I basically...
  19. Butch5

    Baptism for Salvation

    I'm not familiar with that story. Do you know who told it? Who the writer was?
  20. Butch5

    Gifts of the Spirit

    Let me clarify, When I said faith, I didn't mean personal faith. I meant "The Faith" the body of Christian doctrine that was preached. The Gospel message that Jesus preached.. Prophecy and knowledge were in part and they were revealing the Christian faith (body of doctrine). I believe What Paul...