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  1. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Yes, I am guilty of reading the scriptures as a simple child. I've not yet learned to complicate it with the convolution of words and ideas required by the trinity. I did at one time, but those days are long gone. Obviously you and I have strong disagreements on this front, but I hope you know...
  2. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Here's what I said: "Jesus prayed that we would all be one with him and the Father. Are we then to think we are all God? I don't think so. Have you ever read something like, "the crowd was one in their objection to..." We all know what that means. We all know it means many people shared the...
  3. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    It's irrelevant as to whether two or more people agree on something or not. They are still two or more people, or in case of God and Jesus, two people. That much the trinity says, but then the doctrine necessitates we add, "they are not three, but one..." Doing that makes the words "three" and...
  4. Rich R

    Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

    Well, in a sense suppose you are correct in saying that I am reading these verses from preconceived idea. But where did I get that idea? 1 Cor 12:4-7, 4 διαιρεσεις δε χαρισματων εισιν το δε αυτο πνευμα 5 και (and) διαιρεσεις διακονιων εισιν και ο αυτος κυριος 6 και (and) διαιρεσεις...
  5. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    I challenge you to find anything I've said that violates the rules of logic. On the other hand, I can see one right here: "though individual, they are one." Presumably the individual refers to, 1) God, 2) Jesus, 3) the Holy Spirit. That's 3 different people. It defies logic, grammar, common...
  6. Rich R

    Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

    You're sure you are sure? :) Carrying on a "new thought" from verse 7? Then it's not a "new thought" at all. It's either carrying on the same thought as verse 4 or a different thought. It can't be a new thought carrying on from the same thought. It's either the same thought or a new thought. It...
  7. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Not once we aver, "...So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty..." ~ Athanasian Creed ~ If we accept that then no need to make sense with anything else. Anything goes, but it does not go. What???? :)
  8. Rich R

    Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

    I think you may be getting hung up on the word "gifts" while not seeing the significance of the words "spiritual matters" (Greek pneumaticos) from verse 1. Paul tells us in verse 1 that he is going to speak about spiritual matters, not just gifts. He is also going to talk about administrations...
  9. Rich R

    Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

    I agree with you 100% that everything we get from God is a gift, but not all gifts are the same. Last Christmas I got many gifts but they were all quite different. Let's look at the context. I'm not ignoring it at all. In fact, context is what I believe builds my case. First of all, it must be...
  10. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    I've asked countless individuals who the God and Father of God is. So far no answer that makes 1 ounce of sense.
  11. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Actually it's the Greek texts that have variants. There are some that say, "...which he hath purchased with his own blood." Others say, "...which he hath purchased with the blood of his own." How do we decide which is the more likely text? To start with, it is important that we don't build an...
  12. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Did you spend any time at all looking at textual variants of Acts 20:28? They are most definitely there. As I said, even most trinitarian scholars acknowledge that. They have to, because there are in fact textual variants there. In any case, whatever Acts says, it must agree with 1 Cor 8:6 and...
  13. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Well, I certainly don't blame you for wasting time. I think it would be a huge waste of time trying to prove anything I said is wrong.
  14. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Why would Stephen praying to God make him God? 1Tim 2:5, For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Here Jesus is called both a mediator and a man. A mediator stands between two parties, in this case people and God. The very fact Jesus stands between...
  15. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    About what? Jesus didn't say the Pharisees were following tradition? The Pharisees were not the religious leaders? Peter does not say Christians share in the divine nature? Corinthians and John do not say only the Father is God? The orthodox church is somehow immune to following tradition? I...
  16. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Paul told the Pharisees that they followed tradition instead of the scriptures (Matt 15:6, Mark 7:13). The Pharisees were the religious leaders of that time but that didn't make them immune from following tradition instead of the scriptures. If it was true then there is no reason it can't be...
  17. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Yeah, the Hebrew word for worship is used many times of people bowing to a superior. The same Hebrew word is used for "worship" and "bowing." I think it's something like "shelach" but better verify that before passing it on. :)
  18. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    I'm sorry, but none of the verses you listed actually say anything about Jesus being God. John 8:54 for example is clearly talking about two different people with no hint whatsoever that those two people are part of the trinity. Such an idea has to be inserted into the verse because. Likewise...
  19. Rich R

    Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

    I think the scriptures clearly declare tongues to be a manifestation. 1 Cor 12:7-10, 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith...
  20. Rich R

    John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

    Well, I didn't take it out of context, but disregarded your "context" and applied the right context to it. And it was very purposeful. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Don't take me too seriously. I know your position and I respect your steadfastness to it. I don't agree...