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Ok Where I would see this as falling short would be "you are doing well" may be construed in such a way as to unhitch it from the load John has works carrying--ie, "you are doing well means God is pleased, but that doesn't mean your eternal life is decided by whether you do good".

I'm literally asking how you all reconciled (if you have) those verses. I did not come in with ulterior motives, or any other verses (eg, James) in mind.

"it may seem as a contradition" : Yeah, you're just saying the same as I am saying--that I am seeking to understand how they do not contradict but how they agree.

Is this a real question? If you don't see an issue, then you don't have an answer, so you're free to move on.

Lol I'm saying what is written MANY TIMES superficially contradicts what is written, so there has to be a resolution.

No, you falsely accused me of not wanting an answer, but, if you'd followed the discussion (you didn't), you would've known better than to "ask" that "question" (accuse me that way). You have an idea you really are proud about, that you need to share, and put on a pedastal--this idea about how...

Yes, but before you can believe you have to hear--eg, it does no good if the message is in Chinese, bc even if my ears hear that, I still haven't heard the message, and, likewise, if the message is in my language, but I can't make sense of it, it may also be said that even if I haven't reached...

Sounds good, man, thanks for joining!

What was my point? I'm having a discussion; you want to join that discussion, but you haven't acquainted yourself with the discussion, so you say things (in this case, a false accusation) that have to be corrected, using up my energy for no reason.

I notice so many words, but still no answer. No, I was honestly asking how you all dealt with the issue--and it really is an issue--because I am looking for good answers or even partial answers that could help move me toward a more satisfying answer.

I invest effort in preparing responses, so when you decide to give me short little answers that ignore everything I've said, or you choose not to respond to certain points I've made, why would I continue to invest in discussion? Like pouring water through a colander, my efforts will be wasted.

We all have our own way, I guess. God did have me be tortured in hell (in 2003), unfortunately, and I have not recovered, and doubt I ever will.

I understand where you're coming from, and that was the rule I lived by, but it wasn't enough--as far as loving and obeying only out of love, no fear, if there's nothing to fear, I find no reason to obey, and I'm not motivated by love only, that's just not how I grew up, and it's not what I read...

For me, it's beyond works or no works (the verses you cited mention doing), it's a question of motivation. I spent myself, before, in fasting, praying, and obeying as best as I could, what ever I believed I ought, but it seems like it wasn't enough, because my thought process was excepted to in...

Well, this idea "if you believe, the matter is done and over with" seems contrary to "If you do the things God wants, you will be making the matter done and over with--if not, watch out."

I agree... but what does it mean to deny Christ? If Christ is represented by His Word, and if that Word is "If I believe, He promised me everlasting life, and nothing further may be asked of me", it may be that denying that Word is denying Christ. And maybe denying Christ in one's works, in that...

Clarification : I'm not looking to reconcile what I believe with what is written, but what is written with what is written (as a result of what is written, I had been uncertain, to this or that degree, what I was to conclude).

Thanks

Lol Thanks

No, you're not getting to start a new conversation until you finish the old one, or else when I debunk you you'll just change topics again, thus defeating the entire purpose.