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Here's another good one... This is one of the things that is just so dumb about these debates. You Calvinists think that you are the only ones who give God the glory. As if my belief that people are required to humble themselves and admit that they are complete losers and sinners who can't...

Time to move on from this nonsense.

Why do you ask people questions that they've already answered? His answer to that question is within his post that you quoted.

I'm just going to assume that is what he's doing at this point and it's something I can't understand. This forum is not a place for playing games. Bible doctrine is serious business. He asked me the following question after I have repeatedly shown him where in the Bible that I believe the wrath...

LOL! Why haven't you? Probably for similar reasons. Don't act like you're the only one who has wanted to just agree to disagree. We have done that sometimes, but then this subject seems to come up occasionally even though this is an eschatology forum and not a soteriology forum. Tell me again...

I'm just going to assume that you are playing games at this point. What do you think I've been showing you? Just read my previous posts. Matthew 24:21 and Revelation 2:22 speak of great tribulation in terms of God's wrath being carried out against unbelievers. How many times do I have to tell...

What else is "wrath upon this people" in the context of "the days of vengeance" referring to except for the wrath of God? Vengeance is the Lord's, right? So, Luke 21:20-24 is talking about the days of God's vengeance and wrath against the Jews in Jerusalem. Matthew 24:15-22 is a parallel passage...

I'm convinced now that you're not even trying to see my point. How else to explain you missing it over and over and over again? What a colossal waste of time this is. Of course, Jesus was not trying to tell them what they would have already known. That is not my point at all and nothing I've...

LOL. I have done that and you are the one who is trying to keep it going. I don't mind agreeing to disagree. We're not talking about the team, we're talking about the kick returner/receiver. Do you really think that I don't know what you're trying to say? I do and disagree with it. Okay? This...

With all your pointless rhetoric aside, do you acknowledge that Luke 21:20-24 relates to what happened in 70 AD? If so, do you believe that passage is parallel to Matthew 24:15-22 and Mark 13:14-20? If not, why not? Keep in mind that I agree with you that Luke 21 does talk about the future...

That's one of the things about premillennialism that doesn't make sense. How can Matthew 25:31-46 be a different event from Revelation 20:11-15 when it clearly shows the wicked, which are those whose names are not written in the book of life, are cast into the everlasting fire when Jesus returns...

Yes, I think the passage you referenced in that post can support what the Revelation 2:22-23 passage is saying, but I would say Revelation 2:22-23 clearly explains itself. It's very straightforward. It indicates that Jesus was going to send great tribulation that would kill Jezebel and those who...

I can't disagree. He refuses to acknowledge it even when you quote him and prove that he said something that he claims to not have said. And he blatantly misrepresents your view (as he has done with mine several times before) of Matthew 24:21. You have always said you see it as God's wrath...

Right. It's very noticeable that pre-tribs are the only ones who ever feel the need to make those convoluted charts. There are no charts in scripture. We can understand what is written in scripture without charts. It seems that they make these charts in an effort to make it look like they know...

This is a great point. How can anyone be led away captive to all nations at the end of the great tribulation when he believes that Jesus returns at the end of the great tribulation He referenced in Matthew 24:21? No one will be led way captive anywhere once He returns. He needs to address this...

More ranting from you. And you complain about others? Look at how you talk to others. Nothing but childish rants. What are you intending to say about the dead in Christ rising first? How does that prove a pre-trib rapture? What are you saying that the dead in Christ rise first before? The...

Oh, how exciting. As if I needed this? No. I know what you were saying and I disagree. Just accept that. Yeah, I know what you were intending to say. I'm a big football fan, so I don't need this explained to me. I disagree that your analogy here is relevant to how salvation works. As you...

That is NOT what he believes and he has never stated anything close to that. Nowhere did Marty say that what happened in 70 AD was "great tribulation Christ tells His disciples they must endure". He has always said that "70 AD is the wrath of God coming against an apostate nation". You are...

Are you trying to claim that God's wrath can never be called tribulation? I've already shown you otherwise with Revelation 2:22. And there are passages like these, also... Romans 2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the...

Then why do you not allow for the possibility of "great tribulation" in Matthew 24:21 to be God's wrath? Especially when Luke 21:23 describes it as "great distress in the land and wrath upon this people"? Look at what you're saying here. This comes across as if you are differentiating between...