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Oops, you forgot the other part of that. Here it is. Philippians 2 12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act...

I would have to differ. I subscribe to the "already but not yet" principle--we're seated with Christ in heavenly places right now, spiritually, but, in the future, those who persist in faith in their lives, in their walks, will physically enjoy enthronement.

I just want to talk about the verses that teach salvation can be lost. LOL

You said all people are saved because wrath was poured out on unbelievers in AD70... but, again, this would not include the unbelievers upon whom the wrath was poured, right, so "all men" are not "saved" from wrath? Also, you're turning the unbelievers into Christs--into sacrifices for...

But don't you say all will be saved?

Just a small point: how are people "saved" from wrath by "wrath" being poured out on them (if they are the unbelievers who are subjects of the wrath)? That is not logical. Also, how are some unbelievers saved from wrath by some other unbelievers having wrath poured out of them? A sacrifice has...

Big can of worms. Don't need to get in to it bc it's not the topic of the thread.

I wasn't referring to believers--that's a different story--but to all mankind, since L.A.M.B. seemed to be differing with you about your belief that all men would be "saved" (of course this makes no sense, since "salvation" would have to include being saved from His wrath, but it is clear that...

Well, I don't want to get into a heated interaction, to be honest, especially since I don't even know, and can't be dogmatic.

I was saying God has a will, and when we sin, we are not choosing God's will. For example, God had a will for Jesus. When Jesus had a different will, He had to put it aside to choose God's will. Therefore, it does not follow from "God wills that all be saved" that "all will be saved".

The will of God is one thing, and every time people sin, they are not choosing God's will--by definition, those who sin do not have God's will in their lives.

We differ: reading Romans 7, I think it is possible that people are not born spiritually dead, but they are born with the sinful flesh, so, because of the inevitable slavery to sin to which men become subjected by dint of the presence of that sinful flesh, men spiritually die. It's interesting...

It says "that I would lose none that You gave Me", so this does not refer to all men. In fact, the first fulfillment comes in the Garden when he gets his disciples dismissed. John 18 8“I told you that I am He,” Jesus replied. “So if you are looking for Me, let these men go.” 9This was to...

But, if that were the case, you would be saying that every single soul who gets condemned to the second death had already received Christ. I don't think that that is tenable. Not to be argumentative.

I was just wondering why it was called "the second death" when we already have two deaths (physical and spiritual). LOL

Yeah, it says there is a second death, but I didn't know if it was differentiating itself from physical death, but, then, sinners are already spiritually dead, so if they die physically that would be two deaths already--so I speculated that it is called "second death" because it refers to a...

I am a little confused on this. I ask because "second death" would seem to differentiate itself from "physical death", but Adam and all his progeny die because of sin, so does the "second death" differ from the "spiritual death" sinners are already in during their physical lives? Maybe it's...

1 Corinthians 9:26-1 Corinthians 10 show that salvation can be jeopardized by sin--that just as the Jews fell under God's wrath and forfeited His promise after having been saved, so, Christians can fall under God's wrath and forfeit His promise after being saved. Some object, "This isn't about...

I hope it's edifying.

Lol I hope it's understood those verses weren't added just for ornament