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There was no friction to avoid. I was terminated. That decision was immediately reversed when I mentioned that I still had the document. He had a nervous breakdown; his dark hair turned completely white overnight, and he took early retirement.

If that were true then everyone participating in our conversation would have to agree with you, that man was better than God. That’s not a Christian argument. Yes. I’m not. What I’m against is your argument that they did better than God. You give the credit to men and withhold the credit...

In my case the only reason the repercussions didn’t end my career is because I had something in the personal handwriting of my incompetent manager, ordering me to do something illegal. I refused. When I was terminated the next day, I made it known that I still had the document in my possession...

The thought that Christian men have ever done better than God at anything, or in any circumstance, is unthinkable to me; even shocking. I take into account that you’re still a new Christian but I can’t in good conscience not push back against it. I don’t know why the others participating in the...

@marks won’t want to hear this but if I were on the side of ”Christians can serve in the military and in law enforcement” camp, I would appeal to the writings of the Nicene Church Fathers. marks does have one good point: Stick to the Bible and don’t add to it. A shift occurred in the thinking...

@Riven what is the context of Romans 13:1-4? Is Paul writing about a civil government run by the followers of Jesus or is Paul writing about a civil government run by unbelievers? Can a civil government carry out its responsibility to maintain order and provide for the defense of its citizens...

I do. No. The Ante Nicenes do back me up on this issue. What they wrote on this issue, aligns with the teaching of Jesus and the apostles concerning how the followers of Jesus are to treat their enemies. Yes. See above.

Everyone should stick with the Bible. Are you saying that the Ante Nicene Christians didn’t?

@Riven do you recognize the man in the photograph? Romans 13:1-4. He’s a “Nero,” a “servant / minister of God”. Joseph Stalin. (Better or worse than Nero?) God used this wicked man to stop what was happening in the Nazi concentration camps. Joseph Stalin wasn’t sent to carry out the Great...

Scripture doesn’t tell us what happened to him. Neither does any other source. We do have information from Roman sources and early Christian writings concerning what happened to men in his position and what instruction the church gave them. I suspect that something similar happened with...

See the writings of the Ante Nicene Church Fathers.

That’s not true. God did do something. Does that sound similar to what happened when the Assyrians and the Babylonians laid seige on Jerusalem? God didn’t stop it but Christian men did? Christian men did better than God?

Paul is writing about the pagan Roman government. Can Christians be pagans? Can pagans carry out the Great Commission? No. It is the role of the unbelieving to maintain order in the world. What happened to Cornelius after he converted? Did he continue to serve the pagan emperor with his...

Jesus and the apostles didn’t treat their enemies like that @Riven. Neither did the other followers of Jesus. That’s not what loving your enemy looks like. You understand that, don’t you? Do you know who did? Read Romans 13:1-4 and you will. That’s not the role of believers. That’s the role of...

That’s right. The apostles are in agreement. That’s also right.

You don’t believe that God could prevent that from happening if Christians had obeyed the teaching of Jesus and the apostles. I do. Both sides would have tried to kill you. The Christians removed themselves from the area.

I said that governments are tasked by God with the responsibility to protect their people and maintain order, as Paul wrote in Romans 13:4. Said the Jewish Sanhedrin to the apostles. My reply to you is their reply to the Sanhedrin. I’m not. And neither are the Christian pastors whom I‘ve quoted.

It’s not my logic. I’m drawing on the teaching and practice of Jesus, the apostles, and the church for the first three centuries of Christian history. “We do not use the weapons of the world” isn’t compatible with serving in the military or law enforcement. The military and law enforcement have...

I already have, but I’ll do it again. Yes. They shouldn’t have been in the army in the first place. They should have done what Jesus and the apostles instructed the followers of Jesus to do -> love their enemy. Now, 1st century Pagans vs. Unbelieving Jews. Both sides are enemies of Jesus...

@Riven It’s the 1st century. Pagan Roman Empire vs. Jews who rejected Jesus and God. The followers of Jesus were there. They didn’t kill anyone. Through the magic of the WABAC machine, you’re there. Who are you killing?