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No need to disagree. William can speak for himself, but his bringing up Jerusalem was for the same reason you clarified the new Jerusalem as the church. Both are good and correct. That is why I asked him to elaborate.

"The power from heaven" is no gift to the flesh--on the contrary--the flesh remains condemned. But no, the power from heaven is the spirit of God within by the birth of a completely new body--spirit--as God is spirit. With which the saved then have to "discipline" the flesh "and bring it into...

Those terms are used, however the greater premise of salvation is new birth, a completely new creation "within you", rather than a conversion of any kind. Therefore, we know that the one body, that born of flesh, is unto death--including that spirit first breathed into us giving us this...

Each of those speaks of the "end"-- Who is the End? Which I say not to be wise, but to note that yes, hiding in plain sight was the truth, yet not revealed until the times are fulfilled...just as it is concerning all things. The "end" is Christ, and also the Beginning--which is to say, the...

No...now it looks like you are dodging again, this time down Abby Road. Clever, but the point is the same--and if each different word and definition and analogy is just another dodge...then they are all just another stumbling block between you and the simple truth behind the many analogies given...

Yes, and yes! Hallelujah!

Those are the teachings of men. 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 do not say "Christians will receive a glorified body..." On the contrary, that teaching came from the "false teachers" spoken of by Peter, who not seeing Jesus return "soon" (like He said) in the flesh (as they wrongly...

Sometime (biblically) the correct address is not what you are referring to, but is a redirect to what really matters. But yes, "Christians are forgiven of all their sins." And yes, they "yet still have a sin nature." But those born again of the spirit of God, no, do not yet have a sin...

I just got through explaining in post #14 saying that the "body" and "flesh" was one of many analogies. But here you are speaking as if you never read what I posted. You are also mixing things up again, first saying the body is not the flesh, but then using the biblical analogy of the...

Still a lousy presentation. "This" does not explain "why" you posted a couple verses.

It is interesting that you used the word "declension" in the title: Declension means the changing of a word's form to show its grammatical role, or a downward slope and deterioration. Did you just mean spiritual decline, or also "the changing of a word's form to show its grammatical role?"...

You doing a lousy job of presenting yourself is on you...and it's still a lousy presentation. The only clear question is the very last one...because it would seem to be separate. But even that could be a hypothetical question. If you are asking me, I have many times clearly stated my answer...

Your understanding above contradicts Jesus saying, "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." Indeed, the kingdom of God had come upon them--Jesus said that. But regarding His return, He spoke of those of...

That is not what was being discussed. William first stated the first quote below, and then asked to include "Jerusalem" in his translation he gave the meaning of Jerusalem...which then is a good translation of the passage and topic: So the full translation of Luke 17:20 would be: not comes...

Then it is as I said, You do not understand.

I have not been speaking of my beliefs, nor at all. What I have been speaking is not mine, but His' who sent me. This is His established method, which you would have done better to expect than to challenge with your own understanding.

Good--thanks! Is there a specific example that you could give that you see "as fitting naturally within the broader biblical pattern that has emerged throughout this discussion?"

Pose your statement as a statement, that what comes out of your mouth is from you and no one else.

That is a poor analogy. To the contrary, Christians (followers of Christ) are given an invitation to live forever, passing from these bodies of flesh to the eternal spirit bodies of God through Christ, by new birth; that though the flesh dies, we shall surely live. Therefore, a Christian is...

Again, instead of fully considering the body analogy given by God, you have imagined your own analogy of a sin nature...which takes away from the clear God-given-point that generates from two completely different births (another analogy). The point is not the analogy, although God’s analysies...