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The Noah account, yes, well... hmmm... <smile> You know... <chuckles>... Luke, in Luke 17, documents the same discussion Matthew does in Matthew 24. In speaking about the coming of the Kingdom (more on that in a moment), Jesus refers to the days of Noah and the days of Lot in the same light...

God is currently building His temple. We are it: Ephesians 2:19-22... "...fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together...

Right, it's not... there is no "rapture," there or anywhere else. Hmmm, well I agree about the angels... and the Sender... But the participation or lack thereof... <chuckles> So Who (capital 'W') do the angels gather them to? <smile> And for what? <smile> Oh boy. Why do you think that...

Okay, but this is a non-answer to my question to you, David. I mean they'll say the same right back to you or anyone else who says this of them. You said they (pre-tribbers) "have an agenda." What do you think that agenda is? I mean, if it's to try to get you to believe and/or understand...

Well, they can (connect the dots), and they do, but the issue is what they think those "dots" are and how they "connect." If the premise(s) is (are) wrong... Yeah, that's the issue. Grace and peace to you.

Like I said, I can connect them the way you think I should, but that's the very issue/problem... the way you and other like-minded folks "connect the dots"... <smile> Ah. Yeah. <chuckles> Grace and peace to you, CrowCross.

Great! Right, but you didn't just present... <smile> Hmmm, yes, lying in wait... Yeah I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. <smile> Post-tribbers are wrong, too... <smile> I will say, though, that "post-tribbers" are... well, closer... than "pre-tribbers"... <smile> ...in the respect...

LOL! Nobody's "hiding behind" anything, CC. But now, "unsupported"... that's all you, man. But hey, that's kind of what makes this debate forum tick, right? Everybody thinks everybody who disagrees with them is making unsupported claims... <smile> Grace and peace to you.

In a certain manner of speaking, yes, but they think they are reading God's Word correctly... they think they're right in their reading and understanding it. I mean, what, David, do you think is their "agenda?' Good grief. Come on, man. <chuckles> Grace and peace to you.

Well now that's a common occurrence on this board... <chuckles> Well, it could be construed as all one big event, and I think that's what he's doing. But just generally speaking, the whole pretrib, um, "schema"... conflates and obfuscates several things... really makes confusing something that...

The point is, he's not "purposely mishandling" God's words. To lie about something, David, one has to know that what he or she is saying is contrary to what is true and thus is false. Otherwise, he or she is merely mistaken... and not lying... which is the case with @CrowCross here...

Come on, man. He is (and they are) not lying, he is (and they are) just wrong. And... it's okay. Grace and peace to you, David.

Oh, I do see your... "connections"... and I've seen them all before... buuuuut-tuuuh.... <smile> I mean, it's the... well, gymnastics... that you and other pre-trib folks have to do to make them that's the problem... <smile> Grace and peace to you.

Sorry, GA, I don't really understand what you're getting at with your question here. And "just wondering"... hmmm... <smile> Grace and peace to you.

<chuckles> I agree, and there is no other. And I agree that Zechariah here speaks of it, but... <smile> This is... a very... wooden understanding of Zechariah's prophecy. I most certainly agree that there will be a great division, though... <smile> There is no "rapture" in the sense that...

<chuckles> Ah, so your "return 1" is not physical... despite what we read in, for instance, Acts 1, particularly, "This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven..." (Acts 1:11). My goodness... "two returns"... <chuckles> Grace and...

<sigh> He was born of a woman (Mary, of course) and entered this world just like you and I and every human being who has ever and will ever live. He was in every way a man, and thus human, just as you and I are ~ having put aside His position as second Person of the triune God for a time ~ and...

Well, your first two "dots" are the first problem... <smile> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're... understanding Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 to be two separate returns. This is a misreading/misunderstanding of those two chapters, and a misunderstanding of the book of Revelation as...

You did say, "Humans Are Not Spirits." So, yeah, no need for that clarification. And He was... and as such, He had a spirit. But He was not merely human. <smile> As Paul said, He was both in the form of God and in the form of man (Philippians 2). So, a man, and thus human, but also God...

<chuckles> <sigh> I didn't say humans are spirits (or ever will be), so no need for that clarification. I will say, though, that if we die before Jesus returns,, our spirits will be separated from our bodies... for a time; this is what we call the intermediate state... <smile> ...until...