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  1. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    You will need to point out in Romans specifically because I see nothing that puts baptism before believing. All men were saved by His mercy. That is referring to the universal atonement of Christ. It is also referenced in Eph 2:1-5. Not that we are not as believers saved by grace as...
  2. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    agree with you completely.
  3. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    When one isolates texts to try to make a point it usually ends in error. The context of this whole discourse goes way back to vs 44 where it clearly states who will be drawn and will be raised in the last day. Well, just who will be raised up, Col 1:20 says all things were given to Christ to...
  4. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    The real question is how can you give any evidence that you are correct. As any protestant. all you have is your opinion. Your opinion against any other persons opinion. I can give you factual historical interpretation that has been the same for 2000 years.
  5. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    Can you find that in scripture. We are to read it and apply it to our lives, I Tim 3:15 clearly says otherwise respective of interpretation. I thought you followed scripture? It matters not how many there might be. It puts man as the primary authority over scripture which is diametrically...
  6. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    You have not posted any that actually say the unsaved cannot choose God. You also contradict yourself with a statement lower in this post that believers are chosen from the foundations of the earth. You believe in a God who created man in His Image then does not love them, in fact you have...
  7. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    His free will is very active, He chooses to ignore the natural knowledge of creation. But man also chosses to find God. Able, Noah, Enoch, Abraham, and many others. God found favor with these persons. He did not coerce them. Since God desires all men to believe, if he wanted them he could have...
  8. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    Scripture never indicates that man lost his free will. Free will to serve God. Rom 1:18-24 alludes to the same thing. Man actually needs to make an effort to actually deny the knowledge of God. We also have many who were called righteous in the OT. They are not righteous because God forced...
  9. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    I have no idea what theory you are superimposing upon scripture, but it is totally foreign to me. You are still totally conflating physical death with spiritual death. You also leave most of humanity in non existence. Besides totally denying the Incarnation of Christ. I believe it is...
  10. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    I don't know about Armenianism, but historical Christianity has always believed that man was created with an independent will. God could not expect the return of love without the freedom of the will of man. Scripture is full of man choosing between life and death. We will be judged on what we...
  11. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    You are quite confused. You are conflating physical death and spiritual death. I Cor 15: 20-22 is addressing physical death. The previous verses are speaking of all the dead that are raised because Christ is raised. It is an equation. So by your logic ONLY believers died through Adam thus only...
  12. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    The curse of death, physical death was due to one sin, the sin of Adam. Man became mortal. Man sins because he is mortal. Christ was Incarnated, took on that physicality of man, our human nature which is consubstantial with creation. Creation does not sin, The atonement of Christ has two...
  13. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    You have a lot of words that don't really make sense to me regarding propitiation of sin. It matters not what sin, how many sins, whose sins, kind of sins. Christ atoned for those sins. In other words He offered a sacrifice for sin, The covering of that sin is appropriated by faith. I see no...
  14. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    The problem is that I agree with you respective of the RC. I'm not RC which is why many of their doctrines have been condemned by the Orthodox Church, such as predestination, Original Sin. The issue is that the first three reformers embodied a lot of RC theology. Calvin departed from...
  15. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    It would be really remarkable that the early Church actually held to the view of irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints and then later condemn it has heresy. Calvinism as a whole was condenmed by the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672. Good luck, the ones you picked below do not suffice...
  16. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    It is a split event for the unbeliever. Every human being will receive life at the end of time. All will be raised because Christ defeated death for the world actually. Respective of the sacrifice for sin, if one never believes or falls away from his faith, he has forfeited the sacrifice and...
  17. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    I know you are convinced that you are correct. The view you espouse has never been a teaching of the Church for 2000 years. The theory you are espousing is the I an P of Calvinism which is obviously a modern new view and not scriptural.
  18. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    It is precisely what I have been saying. The sacrifice is complete, finished, perfected, and is available for all men. However, believers are the subject here, those that are sanctified. This verse isolated again, which you seem to do a lot, does not address that any believer can forfeit that...
  19. R

    LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    You missed the initial reconciliation in the same context. II Cor 5:18-19 is Christ reconciling the world to God. This is automatic or a free gift given to all mankind. Because of this reconciliation Paul then pleads that a person reconcile themselves to Christ which we do by and through...
  20. R

    How to stop confessing sin.... another view.

    In other words you cannot answer the questions. It's obviously your own personal theory and has no basis for the correct understanding of scripture. It has no creditable history to be authentic teachings of scripture. It is not of the Holy Spirit who gave the Gospel once for all time, Jude 3...