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Oh Marks...the passage says both. But it also refers to the women/wife also first being a part of the man, coming out of the man, and then returning to become one again (after which the rest of scripture tells of her cleansing).

You quote the scriptures, but you do not understand what you are quoting, and in your ignorance you judge me. You quoted: But you do not understand. How is the Fall rain also the Spring rain? How is David's Lord also his Son? How did Jesus save--both Israel and the Church, who came in their...

Welcome Shane!

That's far enough. If you actually knew the scriptures, you would have known that I was quoting them nearly verbatim, much of which I even gave in quotations or italicized. You are in no position to say.

You are stuck, and you are not listening or hearing. I am not telling you what I "believe", but what is true from God. Take it or leave it, but the former, early rain was unto Israel (the natural by example), while with the coming of Christ the kingdom of heaven came upon Israel, whom Christ...

First, I was not and am not speaking out of my own "beliefs." It is important to understand that while there is an immense sea of such activity for the sake of discussion and perhaps debate, God still delivers what is true directly. For which we are commanded, "He who has an ear, let him hear."...

Yes, He is the Author. That is what is true.

Although most have missed it--the apostle Paul gave the best answer, saying, "but each one in his own order" ("one" meaning, by definition, each individual). Most don't even consider that to be about how long we have. Yet, of course it is about how long--that is all the time any of us have! And...

While it is true that God may very well have omitted the times or generations of some He did not consider important to record in the eternal record of which the scriptures are, the issue not of science...or even years, or age. The real issue, is that God had begun a ribbon of events regarding...

That is all well and good to a point, but should not overshadow the greater meaning of "first to the Jew, and also to the Greek (gentile, afterward), including also that early rain specifically given to Israel, lest we become self-important in our own eyes, as if it refers only to those born...

Thanks--that is refreshing to hear! You're on the right track. The issue has become one of "How shall we therefore live" (in this world, during our time remaining here). But as you have said, most have done poorly. A good example of what is correct, is the story of Mary and Martha. It's...

Joe, In principle, what you have said about the early and latter rain is not untrue. But it is only a parable version of what is greater, reiterated in that way to carry the matter forward to many generations. To the contrary, however, the early and latter rain is rather a parable pointing to...

Water Baptism is again an image or example of the greater circumstances regarding our being born into the filth of our own sin, needing to be washed clean, and then reborn of the incorruptible spirit of God. As for greater meaning, it is but to the church as the law and the daily sacrifice were...

Jesus' description goes back to the terms first used in the creation of the heavens and the earth, referred to as the waters above and below the firmament--meaning above or below, as heaven is above and earth is below. In other words, the water in John 3:5 refers to first being born of this...

You have not asked a yes or no question. That is not how eternity works. The only before and after that exists, only exists in time, which is a created non-reality. History as it unfolds is simply a revelation of what eternally "is", like the pages of a book that is read. However, in the case...

Such is the God-esteemed humility. Thank you! The point of the thread is to highlight the plan of God to take us from sinful babes lacking any real knowledge--to being perfect as He is perfect. A transition is in order, and in fact should be expected, for it is a promise from God to be...

Like I explained before--let me again clarify--I am not saying what I merely "believe", but what I know to be true from God and by God. There is no timeline of things "before" with God, except what is said from the midst of these times of His creation. Therefore, it is correct to say that what...

I remember "believing" when I was younger, before I came to know God, that surely there was more to life than my eyes had revealed to me. When I came to crying out to Him, I still did not "know" Him, but He answered and confirmed my belief in a way of knowledge rather than belief. Since then I...

That is a most excellent explanation! However, what is missing presently in most people's understanding of all that, is how that all applies to those written portions of scripture that were sealed only to be revealed just before the end, namely a proper understanding of Daniel's prophecy, and...

I do. I thought that would be obvious given my response.