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I guess they were supposed to?

EG, I don't know any Christian that depends on himself for salvation. Isn't this why Jesus died for us? So we could depend on Him for our salvation? As to John and 1 John 2:19...did you ever study John and gnosticim? Seems like you've heard it before...maybe it's right? If you're at all...

Have to get to my computer.... Can't write on this thing...

What in Romans 8?

John 15 is about branches being burned because they are not abiding. The bible says what is says,,, Not what we wish it said. Reply to my post to you...just sent.

F Where does scripture say we are saved forever NO MATTER WHAT? Which is what OSAS means.

OSAS is not biblical. And no one that knows it can't be true is sitting on a fence. Jesus said if we abide in Him we will not be thrown out as a dead branch. It's up to us to abide,,, It's up to Him to save. John 15

1.30 am here. Do you know church history? Will reply better tomorrow.

Please explain better But my reply won't be till tomorrow... Sorry.

Your last sentence is correct... However... OSAS DOES come from calvinism and did Not exist in christian theology until 1500AD Why would this not have existed in the church till then??

Because they did not follow God's plan for them and went their own way. Much like those that forfeit their salvation.

I agree. But not throughout church history. Calvinism was based on some ideas of Augustine, 400AD, but the reformed faith began in 1500AD.

You're right G, The NT is full of verses that show one could forfeit their salvation. We cannot be saved by works without faith... But the faith that saves us demands works.

Well, great minds think alike ! I also like the Biblehub website. I use it for posting verses, to check out commentary when there's something I don't understand, and for the very same reason YOU do. :)

LOL If someone thinks they are elect and are not... what guard would be important? They're lost anyway.... My point being, that one should KNOW if they are saved. I dislike using the word elect for obvious reasons.

How could someone THINK they are one of the elect and not be?

Great post ! Well said.

Good post. You're right of course. James is merely saying what he stated: FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS A DEAD FAITH. James 2:17, 20 James states that faith, all by itself, useless since it does not do any good for humanity and God means for US to be His hands and do HIS work here on earth. We are...

I don't really use the Blue Letter Bible website. It just happened to have the written information that I wanted to link. Sometimes links are necessary to show that you're not saying what YOU believe but what is accepted Christian theology. I agree totally with your first paragraph. The O.T...

Please see my post no. 373...