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Great thread. Looks like I missed it all by being away. I like this 2nd page the best...especially the first two paragraphs. Amen to that...I also have noticed this.

Sometimes the truth is difficult to digest.

Hi Darryl, Welcome to the forum! We look forward to hearing from you.

I was listening to something on YouTube that was explaining that even in the O.T. God was often referred to in the plural. I'd like to send it to you if I could find it again. As to "it", "He", the Word and Breath --- this is my whole point. God Father, Yahweh, is a being. In that being is...

You don't mention it, but you believe John 1:3 is referring to "it" and not "he". There is some conflict about this...I'm not prepared to discuss it because I'm not a theologian, I can only accept what Christian churches have come to believe from the beginning times. At Nicea it was accepted...

The above is not clear to me. Do you believe God predestines those that will be saved?

Agreed on both. The KJV, although much revered by many, is full of incorrect translation. It's become necessary to have footnotes for the corrected words.

Hi C, I see you're all talked out !! I THINK I agree with you... Our future is predestines if we're saved in that we go to be with God,,,certainly some things in the bible ARE predestined --- for instance what some special persons were called to do. Example, Moses, Mary, even Pharoah. After...

I believe the KJV is the only bible that uses the word "creature". Immediately in the next verse it says that He created everything that exists. It's not plausible that those that wrote the N.T. could have thought that Jesus was created... I mean the Logos. Jesus WAS created, 2,000 years ago...

You didn't care for Ignatius and now you have a problem with Polycarp. Even Polycarp, in the very letter you quote, advises the Philippians that they should listen to Ignatius (he was most respected in his time). As far as Jesus being the first raised from the dead...this is true, but I don't...

WHO said they are not saved??? What I said is that God predestined that WHEN we became saved we would be as Sons adopted through Jesus. This does not speak about WHO will be saved.

Sorry J, I didn't explain myself properly. Predestination has to do with salvation, but not WHO gets saved, but rather HOW we're saved. For instance in the verse you posted: 1 Thessalonians 1:4 4knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you; 5for our gospel did not come to you in word...

Glad you explained it. Sometimes I tire of explaining it....

Predestination has nothing to do with salvation. Election is concerning how God revealed Himself through the Hebrew nation. Neither one has anything to do with God deciding who is saved and who is not. He leaves that up to us to decide --- Jesus stands at the door and knocks, it's up to us to...

You kept talking about predestination. God predestines HOW we will be saved, not WHO will be saved. Anyway, I hope you speak up more in the future so we could get to know you. You sure did talk a lot in that other place!!

I'm reading Not Heaven or Hell from your links. It's very interesting.... But you have to understand that we here don't know you and would like to. It doesn't work through osmosis!!

To tell you the truth C, it sounds very much like you ARE calvinist. Everything you said till this last post sounded just like Unconditional Election. However, I AM happy to hear that you understand that God FOREKNEW who would be saved and He did not PREDESTINE some to be saved. @CoreIssue

Do Not Destroy Concrete Images Once I've spoken a little about biblical beliefs, I tend to let the subject go... All except one: Calvinism. I believe it's an affront to God and to other Christians. I find most of this belief system are reluctant to admit to what denomination they belong and...

There is one catholic church, split into a few denominations, but they basically all believe the same .... When I say "the Protestant" church...I have to explain WHICH ONE I'm talking about. All these different views about important matters, such as works and eternal security, leave me rather...

I didn't say all the psalms are fake. I didn't say I don't like them. Some cannot be taken literally. The psalm you mentioned (139:8) also says that you were made in secret in the depths of the earth, psalm 139:15 1 Peter 3:19 does not refer to hell. Also, hell was incorrectly translated from...