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  1. Wrangler

    God's Personal Name & New World Translation

    As always tigger, you make great points! Because of the trinitarian bias, of supposing the suffering servant, anointed, is the anointer, we lose sight of the significance of God revealing his PERSONAL NAME, YAHWEH because he sought a personal relationship with us. Calling people by titles is...
  2. Wrangler

    Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

    I disagree. @Aunty Jane answered a question I asked, clarifying the topic is less than doctrine. I’m not sure what the word is but the RCC do something similar with the claim of the infallibility of the Pope; they say the claim only applies to doctrine. An example I’ve been using lately is...
  3. Wrangler

    These three are one

    Ever read another translation? 7 So we have these three witnesses— 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree. NLT
  4. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    Reminds of the Klingons in Star Trek. I don't mind that. If I decided not to go the my non-denominational church, I wouldn't expect to ever see them again, except randomly in places we frequent, like stores. I'm pretty sure they would not embark on a campaign of harassment and intimidation...
  5. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    Thanks. I'm not so concerned about their doctrine but their cult obsession with controlling their members. In the case of my SIL, they sent squads to intimidate family members to shun him - even those who are no longer JW. If you read what @Aunty Jane wrote, she said that there really is no...
  6. Wrangler

    What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

    Yes and so do a lot of other people, including Jesus at Mark 14:61-62 High Priest: Are You God’s Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of the Blessed One? Jesus: 62 I am. For some reason, you do not accept Jesus' 'I am' statement here to be definitive. What makes this bizarre is this "I am"...
  7. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    And I think it is OK to speculate so long as you keep your feet on the ground, keep distinct what we know through explicit text from how ambiguous verses could be taken - but are not necessary consequences. Knowing we more or less agree on politics, let me reference public policy matters...
  8. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    Exactly. You conclude so concisely because Scripture is explicit. When Eve was created is not explicit. So, we could speculate all kinds of scenarios. Why don’t we speculate on when Eve was created but what happens after we are resurrected?
  9. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    TOTALLY WRONG! The Bible says to leave the guy, not invoke all manner of coercive, harassing and manipulations to bring the guy back by any means.
  10. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    No. It’s the exact opposite. He just wanted to be left alone by JW. They used his family to harass him and it made things much, MUCH worse for all concerned. Seems the JW coercion tactics brought out the worst in all concerned.
  11. Wrangler

    What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

    I is sure me canna butcher ‘da worsa. Point is, you be reading what ain’t there, for God did not say I is to Moses. So, there ain’t being no correlation, don’t you know? By contrast, explicit Scripture states Jesus is the son of God and his God has a personal name, which is not Jesus.
  12. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    I’m not exactly sure what that means. It sounds like the introduction of why many call the JW a cult, invoking all manner of coercive manipulations, including guilt complexes. He could not care less how he is seen by JW elders. It’s too bad he did not know me then for the Wrangler surely...
  13. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    Here, you might be falsely equating a girl who WAS sexually immoral (and got pregnant out of wedlock) with one actively engaging in sexual immorality. I realize the details of the event have not been forthcoming. However, several women on these boards questioned the wisdom of limiting marriage...
  14. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    The question is, would you join Calvin in burning us? If not, why not?
  15. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    This is the inevitable result of a lack of explicit Scripture. There is no such diversity regarding what day man was created on.
  16. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    I'm not sure what kind of word play you got going there. See Nullification v Secession. It might explain why there is no dissension among the ranks. I understand there is an arduous process for one to leave the RCC. What is the process for one to leave JW? I guess my SIL could only find the...
  17. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    Yes, Jesus will let us know. However, in the case of my SIL, it seems the Elders of JW acted on Jesus' behalf. The poor man now wants N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with religion, let alone JW. And there are many others who've had such experiences. And they tell their stories. Hear me well, it is not...
  18. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    Yes, you are late to the party. This was explained in detail. In short, a bad trinitarian translation does not ring true as Jesus is not God, not the creator and the verse to which you refer says in plain English that God created for, through and in connection to Jesus. See Post #16.
  19. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    What a shame! When she needs community support more than ever, she is abandoned. As Aunty Jane said, there are 2 sides to every story. Maybe the elders thought it best to use her as an example to other unmarried young women.
  20. Wrangler

    What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

    Agreed, there are 2 sides to the story. That’s why I did not state my judgment on the matter, only what my SIL has said. To elaborate, he said he’s tried to leave several times and the acted the way he did to get effectively banished. No longer considering himself part of the religion, half...