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It’s better for a Christian to die than to disobey the Messiah.

Thank you, Father. Paul tells the followers of Jesus in Romans 13:1-4 who it is that God uses to maintain order in the nations of the world. It isn’t the followers of Jesus. How do we know that is true?

Let’s go back to Romans 13:1-4. When was it written? By whom was it written? To whom was it written? Who is the head of the government? God uses that person to maintain order.

* Acts 26:24-25 *

“Only love can defeat fear.” - Henri Nouwen

I’m heading off to bed @Riven. I’ll leave you tonight with this: God’s thoughts and ways aren’t mankind’s thoughts and ways. Have a reverential fear of God.

That’s right. Yes. That’s false. Listen to the Christian preachers whom I’ve quoted. @Wrangler has said that two of them (C.H. Spurgeon and C.S. Lewis) are his favorite Christian authors. They are giants in the Protestant tradition. (Neither of them are unitarian; Wrangler is. You don’t...

Christians do. Man isn’t better than God. God is better than man. @marks touched on this in post #210 and post #213. He’s not just all loving. In rejecting Jesus, the Jews also rejected God. They have a track record of rejecting God; and God has a track record of punishing them, even...

There was no friction to avoid. I was terminated. That decision was immediately reversed when I mentioned that I still had the document. He had a nervous breakdown; his dark hair turned completely white overnight, and he took early retirement.

If that were true then everyone participating in our conversation would have to agree with you, that man was better than God. That’s not a Christian argument. Yes. I’m not. What I’m against is your argument that they did better than God. You give the credit to men and withhold the credit...

In my case the only reason the repercussions didn’t end my career is because I had something in the personal handwriting of my incompetent manager, ordering me to do something illegal. I refused. When I was terminated the next day, I made it known that I still had the document in my possession...

The thought that Christian men have ever done better than God at anything, or in any circumstance, is unthinkable to me; even shocking. I take into account that you’re still a new Christian but I can’t in good conscience not push back against it. I don’t know why the others participating in the...

@marks won’t want to hear this but if I were on the side of ”Christians can serve in the military and in law enforcement” camp, I would appeal to the writings of the Nicene Church Fathers. marks does have one good point: Stick to the Bible and don’t add to it. A shift occurred in the thinking...

@Riven what is the context of Romans 13:1-4? Is Paul writing about a civil government run by the followers of Jesus or is Paul writing about a civil government run by unbelievers? Can a civil government carry out its responsibility to maintain order and provide for the defense of its citizens...

I do. No. The Ante Nicenes do back me up on this issue. What they wrote on this issue, aligns with the teaching of Jesus and the apostles concerning how the followers of Jesus are to treat their enemies. Yes. See above.

Everyone should stick with the Bible. Are you saying that the Ante Nicene Christians didn’t?