“SPRINKLED FROM AN EVIL CONSCIENCE:” HEB 10:22 –Bob Hall (Netchaplain)

[veteran]

Apostates are not believers. They only think they were. Anyone who has had a real encounter with Jesus and knows Him will not have to worry about being rejected by God. His grace is sufficient.


Jude 1:24-25 (NLT)

Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into his glorious presence without a single fault.

You must speak a different form of the English language than I do, for the very word 'apostate' means to leave what one once held to. In other words, as applied to Christians that fall away one can't be an 'apostate' unless... they had once believed.

It's specifically the following subject Apostle Paul wrote to Timothy about...

1 Tim 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
(KJV)


How does Apostle Paul reveal there that the 'Once saved, always saved' doctrine of men is false?

Those who came up with the excuse that, "Well, those apostates were never really Christians to begin with", had... to fabricate that idea to TRY... and cover their fake OSAS doctrine of men! No, Apostle Paul says there those "depart from the faith".


More examples...

Heb 3:12
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
(KJV)

II Th 2:3
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(KJV)

2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
(KJV)


Strange how the OSAS doctrinists just omit those Scriptures by Apostle Paul like they never existed.

 

[Lively Stone]

God's grace is mighty strong and able to keep that which has taken hold of it. Have you ever heard of anyone being unborn? Of course not. Anyone who is genuinely born again will never lose their salvation. However, those who knew the benefits of salvation by living according to how a Christian should live, but not ever really encountering Christ are merely religious people, and they can become apostate, abandoning things they have come to believe, but not know by experience.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. They will reject the truth and chase after myths.


Yes, a time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine, but these are not regenerated people to begin with.

 

[veteran]

Yes, a time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine, but these are not regenerated people to begin with.

They were in the Faith, but then fell away. How is it you cannot understand that? Why would you allow men's teachings to blind your understanding away from that prophecy of the apostasy of once-believing Christians departing from the Faith?

When those apostates first came to Christ Jesus and believed on Him, and were baptized in His Name, how could His Grace NOT be applied to them? Don't you understand how using the excuse that those weren't really 'saved' in Christ to begin with is to shamingly assume that their original confession, repentence, and baptism in Christ Jesus had NO... effect???

That's why using such an idea those were not really 'saved' to begin with strongly reveals how the Once-Saved-Always-Saved doctrine is a doctrine of men, and not Scriptural.

 

[Lively Stone]

They were in the Faith, but then fell away. How is it you cannot understand that? Why would you allow men's teachings to blind your understanding away from that prophecy of the apostasy of once-believing Christians departing from the Faith?

When those apostates first came to Christ Jesus and believed on Him, and were baptized in His Name, how could His Grace NOT be applied to them? Don't you understand how using the excuse that those weren't really 'saved' in Christ to begin with is to shamingly assume that their original confession, repentence, and baptism in Christ Jesus had NO... effect???

That's why using such an idea those were not really 'saved' to begin with strongly reveals how the Once-Saved-Always-Saved doctrine is a doctrine of men, and not Scriptural.

No regeneration, no fruit, no salvation.

Once one is truly reborn, he will never be unborn.

We are saved as a result of the new birth. A basic understanding of "birth" is that it is a permanent condition, in that you can't go back into the womb, neither your mother's womb, nor the womb of disbelieving Jesus once you have come to believe.

If you can stop believing in Jesus you NEVER REALLY BELIEVED.
If you can stop believing Jesus you were NEVER BORN AGAIN.
If you considered yourself saved at one time and no longer do, it means YOU NEVER WERE.

Either you believe Jesus is Lord and Saviour or you do not.

In the gospels, those that turned back from following Jesus did so because they did not believe who He said He was. If that is any of you, it has nothing to do with a doctrine, but one’s own personal belief about salvation attained and maintained by performance.

I fear your views are like that of all the religions in the world. They are really about man and what man MUST DO AND NOT DO to be saved. Christianity is about the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done for us to be saved. My recommendation is for us to trust Christ alone, turning our eyes to Him and off of ourselves and what we do and don’t do to qualify as King’s kids.


2 Timothy 2:13 (NLT)

If we are unfaithful,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot deny who he is.

 

[veteran]

No regeneration, no fruit, no salvation.

Once one is truly reborn, he will never be unborn.

We are saved as a result of the new birth. A basic understanding of "birth" is that it is a permanent condition, in that you can't go back into the womb, neither your mother's womb, nor the womb of disbelieving Jesus once you have come to believe.

If you can stop believing in Jesus you NEVER REALLY BELIEVED
If you can stop believing Jesus you were NEVER BORN AGAIN
If you considered yourself saved at one time and no longer do, it means YOU NEVER WERE.

Either you believe Jesus is Lord and Saviour or you do not.

In the gospels, those that turned back from following Jesus did so because they did not believe who He said he was. If that is any of you, it has nothing to do with a doctrine, but one’s own personal belief about salvation attained and maintained by performance.

I fear your views are like that of all the religions in the world. They are really about man and what man MUST DO AND NOT DO to be saved. Christianity is about the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done for us to be saved. My recommendation is for us to trust Christ alone, turning our eyes to Him and off of ourselves and what we do and don’t do to qualify as King’s kids.


2 Timothy 2:11-13 (NLT)

11 This is a trustworthy saying:

If we die with him,
we will also live with him.
12 If we endure hardship,
we will reign with him.
If we deny him,
he will deny us.
13 If we are unfaithful,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot deny who he is.

Those are your OWN rules you've accepted from men's doctrines. The Biblical fact is like what Apostles Paul taught of how some believers on Christ Jesus can, and will depart... from the Faith they once held. And to assume they were never... in a saving relationship with Christ to begin with is to make a mockery of what Christ Jesus accomplished on His cross. It's even to be a hypocrite in judging an apostate when they first came to Christ Jesus and believed.

 

[Lively Stone]

What makes a mockery of Christ is when a person mocks the abundant grace and mercy that God has for His children and that His arm is not too short to save. Whom He saves, He has foreknown and predestined to become His children. People can be wishy washy, but don't paint a wishy washy God.

The only people who walk away from God are those who never knew Him or truly experienced His grace and mercy to begin with.

 

[veteran]

What makes a mockery of Christ is when a person mocks the abundant grace and mercy that God has for His children and that His arm is not too short to save. Whom He saves, He has foreknown and predestined to become His children. People can be wishy washy, but don't paint a wishy washy God.

That's the very reason why... you don't understand what Paul wrote to Timothy about believers that once believed but then depart from the Faith. Not EVERYONE is 'chosen' elect. Some are only 'called', but not 'chosen' like Christ's elect are.

 

[Lively Stone]

That's the very reason why... you don't understand what Paul wrote to Timothy about believers that once believed but then depart from the Faith. Not EVERYONE is 'chosen' elect. Some are only 'called', but not 'chosen' like Christ's elect are.

I not only understand Paul but I love him. He had a great understanding of the things of God and His Spirit.

 

[veteran]

I not only understand Paul but I love him. He had a great understanding of the things of God and His Spirit.

You certainly don't show it by denying what he wrote there in Timothy about those who depart from the Faith.

 

[Lively Stone]

You certainly don't show it by denying what he wrote there in Timothy about those who depart from the Faith.

Yes, I show it. I understand what Paul says, and don't deny anything.

 

[veteran]

Yes, I show it. I understand what Paul says, and don't deny anything.

1 Tim 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
(KJV)

Will you continue to falsely infer those Paul speaks of had never accepted Christ Jesus the same way you did?

By doing that, you automatically exalt yourself above those apostates, as if YOU cannot ever fall away?

But I say, the fact that you're heeding men's doctrines instead of staying in God's Word as written shows HOW even you have begun to depart from The Faith.

 

[Lively Stone]

1 Tim 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
(KJV)

Will you continue to falsely infer those Paul speaks of had never accepted Christ Jesus the same way you did?

By doing that, you automatically exalt yourself above those apostates, as if YOU cannot ever fall away?

But I say, the fact that you're heeding men's doctrines instead of staying in God's Word as written shows HOW even you have begun to depart from The Faith.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (NLT)

[sup]1[/sup] Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. [sup]2[/sup] These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead.


People can have a measure of faith, but that doesn't mean they have experienced salvation and that they actually walk in their faith. I witness many on Christian boards who speak of faith, but they do not grasp what salvation is, nor do they walk righteously. In actuality, they are pretty much dupes. In the last days, indeed these kinds of people will fall away and reveal their true god. These are the tares we rub shoulders with in the churches.

I can say that having an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ guarantees me that the kingdom is mine, and that I am assured that I am forever a child of God. My faith is vital and vibrant, and I will never leave my Lord and Saviour who loves me, favours me, and has forgiven me of all my sin.

 

[veteran]

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (NLT)

[sup]1[/sup] Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. [sup]2[/sup] These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead.


People can have a measure of faith, but that doesn't mean they have experienced salvation and that they actually walk in their faith. I witness many on Christian boards who speak of faith, but they do not grasp what salvation is, nor do they walk righteously. In actuality, they are pretty much dupes. In the last days, indeed these kinds of people will fall away and reveal their true god. These are the tares we rub shoulders with in the churches.

I can say that having an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ guarantees me that the kingdom is mine, and that I am assured that I am forever a child of God. My faith is vital and vibrant, and I will never leave my Lord and Saviour who loves me, favours me, and has forgiven me of all my sin.

Good thing your enemies aren't here to openly judge you, as you do other brethren's faith per the above.

It's part of the false Pre-trib Rapture doctrine to make you feel more exalted than you (a sinner) really are. That's another method they use to pump up the Pre-trib lie among the deceived.

The main group that fall away per Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 is from the event of a coming false one who will exalt himself over all that is worshiped, setting himself up in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. That's the event Paul linked that time of falling away of many brethren to, what he called "strong delusion". That event has not happened yet today, but is near.

The reason that event will cause many Christian brethren to become apostate is because of falling to worship "another Jesus", because they received another spirit by listening to false ministers disguised as ministers of light which Apostle Paul also warned of in 2 Corinthians 11.

That means those can be standing good in Christ Jesus all the way up to that singular event, but because they have listened instead to men's doctrines about the end time events, they fall away from Christ to bow in worship to the "another Jesus" because of not being able to recognize that fake one, nor the signs Christ Jesus gave about it for just prior to His return. That's how the five foolish virgins represent believers on Christ Jesus in good standing, with their lamps and oil in them per Matt.25. Yet, unlike the five wise virgins, the five foolish ones did not... carry a spare vessel of Oil to go with the oil in their lamps.

That spare vessel of Oil per Matt.25 cannot be sold or bought; it only comes from God by The Holy Spirit as one STAYS in His Word, line upon line, chapter by chapter. Yet doctrines of men try to treat it like it can be sold and bought, which is what the five foolish virgins are told go do to buy at the market. Afterall, instead of spending their time getting God's Word in the mind by The Holy Spirit through discipined Bible study and verifying, they instead heeded men's doctrines and traditions in its place.

 

[Lively Stone]

Oh yeah, the nasty Pre-Trib rapture people are evil and to be despised! When will you and your cronies stop arrogantly judging and labelling people? Is Jesus Christ glorified and honoured in that? Just who is self-exalting here?

 

[veteran]

My "cronies" are my Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles and prophets per His Holy Writ. You would do well to listen to Him in His Holy Writ sometime, instead of men's doctrines like the 'fly away' doctrines of men.

 

[Lively Stone]

My "cronies" are my Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles and prophets per His Holy Writ. You would do well to listen to Him in His Holy Writ sometime, instead of men's doctrines like the 'fly away' doctrines of men.

I listen and heed Him as well---we have the same FRIENDS! I don't follow men's doctrines, but only what the Word says. You and your pals would do well to exercise a little patience mixed with mercy for sisters and brothers you differ with.


.

 

[veteran]

I listen and heed Him as well---we have the same FRIENDS! I don't follow men's doctrines, but only what the Word says. You and your pals would do well to exercise a little patience mixed with mercy for sisters and brothers you differ with.
.

Then quit bragging and mouthing and Biblically prove the Pre-trib fly away doctrine according to Scripture instead.

 

[Lively Stone]

Then quit bragging and mouthing and Biblically prove the Pre-trib fly away doctrine according to Scripture instead.

I don't boast in anything but the Lord and the wonderful thngs He has done.

There is no proof in ANY eschatological interpretation. It doesn;t really matter---we will all know who is right and who is mistaken when we see the end unfold. No one is totally correct, and no one's spiritual discernment is perfect in these matters. It is pointless to be adversartial and judgmental about people and their salvation based on what happens at the end of this age.

Salvation is based on believing in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us. How He comes, when He comes, and when we as the Bride goes to Him is superfluous to His message of salvation, His call to know Him, His word, to preach THE GOSPEL, make disciples, and to become like Him.

 

[veteran]

I don't boast in anything but the Lord and the wonderful thngs He has done.

There is no proof in ANY eschatological interpretation. It doesn;t really matter---we will all know who is right and who is mistaken when we see the end unfold. No one is totally correct, and no one's spiritual discernment is perfect in these matters. It is pointless to be adversartial and judgmental about people and their salvation based on what happens at the end of this age.

Salvation is based on believing in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us. How He comes, when He comes, and when we as the Bride goes to Him is superfluous to His message of salvation, His call to know Him, His word, to preach THE GOSPEL, make disciples, and to become like Him.

I rest my case folks. Pretty difficult to find one who is so deceived away from Bible Scripture that they openly... admit the heeding of Scripture is not important to one's Salvation by Christ Jesus. Yet, there it is!

 

[Netchaplain]

There are scriptures which are essential to the doctrine of salvation and others which aren't. The scriptures which are non-essential for salvation are essential for growth in Christ's image and neighborly love is the prime essential evidence of it all.

Our primary goal should be neighborly love in all we do, esp. when sharing the Word with onne another, always in an encouraging manner.

"All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Tim 3:16, 17).