1 John 1: Mystery Resolved

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1stCenturyLady

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I really don't know what you are talking about here. People who believe in the security of the believer are all unrighteous?

A believer is a slave of righteousness, not unrighteousness. Romans 6:6-16. Are you Calvinist? If so,

RUN!!! Unless you like doctrines of demons and have itching ears.

2 Timothy 4:

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth
, and shall be turned unto fables.
 

Bible Highlighter

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ScottA

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1st Century Lady provided the insight to 1 John 1, that helps to unlock the mystery of how John can be speaking of walking in the Light with Jesus, in whom there is no sin, and yet warn against saying we have no sin.

There are two different kinds of believers in 1 John 1: those who are walking in the Light as Jesus is in the Light, and those saying they are, and are not.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The difference is between those doing it, and those claiming it: those walking the walk and those only talking the talk.

The humility of John was to include himself in the warning of becoming as one who only says Lord, Lord, while also doing works of iniquity.

Them walking in the Spirit in deed and in truth, have no sin even as there is no sin in Christ, but them only doctrinally claiming it while sinning, are utterly decieved with no more truth of Scripture in them.

OSAS faith aloners are even now claiming the doctrinal status of the Light, while still walking in the darkness of sinning flesh.

They likewise are now saying they have not sinned doctrinally, while doing the sinful works of the flesh, by declaring all such present sinning was already forgiven beforehand.

And so, there are the saints in Christ Jesus, that are doing His righteousness, even as He is righteous, and there are the decieved claimers of righteousness by faith alone, while still doing the unrighteousness of the world.

Them walking in the Light as He is in the Light, are being cleansed of all unrighteousness and have no sin in their souls, but them saying they are without sin by doctrine only, while doing it, have no truth in them.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
You still don't understand, but are still speculating.

One does not walk in the Light of Christ in the way that you seem to understand it--but walks in the Light of Christ, by being "in Christ", which fulfills 1 John 1.

You have it backwards.

John did not declare righteousness in the way that you have stated it as having no sin, but rather explained that the one who says he has no sin--actually does not have Christ. But he who has Christ, knows rather that having no sin is not of himself, but of Christ. Therefore, the one who says he has no sin and also says he has Christ, is a "liar", for he makes himself out to be righteous rather than Christ. But the one who says he has sin and Christ--he has confessed his sin and thereby has received Christ.

It is also by this that we know the spirit of anti-Christ (a few chapters later):

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 1 John 4:1-3
The one who confesses His sin and knows his righteousness is of Christ, is he "that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" (because Christ has come into that person's own flesh). But he who confesses to have achieved righteousness by his own acts--this is antichrist.
 
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quietthinker

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Adam sinned in his distrust of what God told him. It set him up for believing the serpents lie.
God's declaration is Jesus. Will we believe him or our own flesh. Our flesh says, let's trade, ie I'll measure up in my performance so now you can save me.
 

robert derrick

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Robert:

You may or may not know this but Robert Gwin is a Jehovah's Witness.
I provided information on the JW religion in this thread here if you are interested.

Reasons why the Jehovah’s Witness religion is evil (Despite my love for them as human beings)
Oh, I know he is and there are several others, and I have learned much from them about how to twist every Scripture in the book, in order to reject John 1:1 as written. OSAS does the same to reject James 2:24.

I really find it incredible how the wisdom of God can expose the gainsayers, and send them running down the wrong road, by just one simple plain Scripture, that cannot be read any differently than it is written.

I believe that is how God divides between those who believe and love Him with a whole heart, and those who only have a faith in Jesus between the ears.

And seeing all the devil's greatest devices to come up with something else than the simple truth, is truly astounding and made John to marvel when he say Babylon in all her great and glorious stupidity.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Oh, I know he is and there are several others, and I have learned much from them about how to twist every Scripture in the book, in order to reject John 1:1 as written. OSAS does the same to reject James 2:24.

I really find it incredible how the wisdom of God can expose the gainsayers, and send them running down the wrong road, by just one simple plain Scripture, that cannot be read any differently than it is written.

I believe that is how God divides between those who believe and love Him with a whole heart, and those who only have a faith in Jesus between the ears.

And seeing all the devil's greatest devices to come up with something else than the simple truth, is truly astounding and made John to marvel when he say Babylon in all her great and glorious stupidity.

Yes, I don't seek to engage with Mr. Gwin in normal conversation about the Bible so as not to mislead others into thinking he is even Christian because he is in reality a Jehovah's Witness (of which he hides in his short bio that appears in each of his posts). While I care for his soul and love him as a human being, his religious JW belief can only lead me to warn others about his false JW beliefs that are at extreme odds to the Bible. I would not invite a JW to fellowship with other believers to talk about the Bible (Although I would meet up with him at a coffee shop alone to talk about the Bible to try and reach him - if he was having doubts about his JW religion). In fact, his off topic interruptions in my threads has inspired me not only to expose the JW religion, but it has inspired me to create threads on other false bible cults, as well.

I would encourage you to check out the thread on why the JW religion is false. I know you already believe they are false. But just check out the points why. There may be something in that thread that you may not have known about them that will shock you.
 
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robert derrick

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You have it backwards. But he who confesses to have achieved righteousness by his own acts--this is antichrist.

True, but since you persist in needing to lie about what others teach, so as to portray it as something entirely different and outrageous, proves you cannot be honest in your own teaching.

Faith with works is justification by Christ, not faith alone before and apart from works, nor works alone before and apart from faith.

One does not walk in the Light of Christ in the way that you seem to understand it--but walks in the Light of Christ, by being "in Christ", which fulfills 1 John 1. But he who has Christ, knows rather that having no sin is not of himself, but of Christ.

Just as you twist the teaching of others into a false light, so you twist your own teaching to appear as true Light.

You and others like you claim a doctrinal righteousness in Christ and being in the Spirit and having no sin doctrinally, while you also walk in the darkness of sinful works of the flesh.

You have gone beyond being counted as righteous by faith alone, to actually being counted as walking in the Light by faith alone, without actually doing it.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

The simple proof of this is that none of you will ever say, that you are not also still walking in darkness and doing the works of the flesh.

Now that I have learned this deeply mystical ability of yours, to claim not only to be something you are not doing, but also to claim being counted as doing it, without doing it, then it is now easy to gut your doctrinal righteousness and walk for the deeply spiritual delusion that it is:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Of course, all you have to say is that you are not walking in unrighteousness deeds of the flesh, while being coutned as walking in the Light, so that your fellowship with Jesus is in deed and in truth. Simple.

For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial?

But, you will not. I predict you will say you are doing so with a doctrinal answer, and not by a yes or no answer.

But, sincerely, I would love you to prove me wrong for the first time in this matter. Just say your doctrinal walk in the Light with Jesus, does not include doing works of the flesh.

Therefore, the one who says he has no sin and also says he has Christ, is a "liar", for he makes himself out to be righteous rather than Christ. But the one who says he has sin and Christ--he has confessed his sin and thereby has received Christ.

True. Those still sinning and walking in darkness, are lying when they say they have Jesus and no sin as He:

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.

But the one who says he has sin and Christ--he has confessed his sin and thereby has received Christ.

And so we see more mystery of doctrinal justification without doing works of righteousness: no man has sin and Christ, in whom is no sin.

And no man can say he has Christ, before ever receiving Christ.

The one who confesses His sin and knows his righteousness is of Christ, is he "that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" (because Christ has come into that person's own flesh).

When we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us all past sins, so that we can confess Jesus Christ is come in our spirit and flesh with power to do His righteousness, that He did in the days of His flesh.

Just to claiming doctrinal righteousness, while doing unrighteousness, is not sane doctrine:

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 

Behold

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3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

You teach that Christ can't keep you saved and pretend this is 'sound doctrine".

Its not, its Cross rejecting heresy.
 

Behold

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Faith with works is justification by Christ,.

The Devil's Gospel is Faith + Works, as when you add works to faith, you deny that "Faith is counted as righteousness".

A person is SAVED when God gives them "the gift of Righteousness".
You do not work for this, you RECEIVE IT, as its a "GIFT".
 
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robert derrick

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Both of you teach works in place of Grace.
God doesn't.
How do you know?

A.) The Cross
We are both saved and justified by grace, since we can only believe Him by grace, and we can only do His righteousness by grace.

Your teaching about works without faith nor grace is your lie, in order to avoid the teaching of others, because you are fearful there may be truth in it, since all you have is what you like to believe.

But the fearful, and unbelieving...

You teach that Christ can't keep you saved and pretend this is 'sound doctrine".

Its not, its Cross rejecting heresy.

Anyone can keep themselves saved by their own faith alone, since all they need do is believe it.
 

robert derrick

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The Devil's Gospel is Faith + Works, as when you add works to faith, you deny that "Faith is counted as righteousness".

A person is SAVED when God gives them "the gift of Righteousness".
You do not work for this, you RECEIVE IT, as its a "GIFT".
You see, the fearfulness of your faith alone salvation, is such that you cannot even comprehend what others teach, lest there be truth in it against your own faith alone. This is why you are so consistent in lying about it.

Faith + Works is false, since the faith of God is never without works, but is always with works, which is the substance and evidence that is faith.

We are saved and justified by grace through faith with works, for faith without works can save no man:

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

I don't know if I have asked you before, but how old are you? I would hate to think I've put so much time wasted into correcting a child under the age of at least 40. If you are over 40, then your adulthood of integrity in grammar and honest debate has been lost by your faith alone.
 

mailmandan

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The Devil's Gospel is Faith + Works, as when you add works to faith, you deny that "Faith is counted as righteousness".

A person is SAVED when God gives them "the gift of Righteousness".
You do not work for this, you RECEIVE IT, as its a "GIFT".
Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

Works-salvationists don't understand this and they basically re-define faith to include works. This culminates in adding their works to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save them, which renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior.
 

ScottA

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True, but since you persist in needing to lie about what others teach, so as to portray it as something entirely different and outrageous, proves you cannot be honest in your own teaching.

Faith with works is justification by Christ, not faith alone before and apart from works, nor works alone before and apart from faith.



Just as you twist the teaching of others into a false light, so you twist your own teaching to appear as true Light.

You and others like you claim a doctrinal righteousness in Christ and being in the Spirit and having no sin doctrinally, while you also walk in the darkness of sinful works of the flesh.

You have gone beyond being counted as righteous by faith alone, to actually being counted as walking in the Light by faith alone, without actually doing it.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

The simple proof of this is that none of you will ever say, that you are not also still walking in darkness and doing the works of the flesh.

Now that I have learned this deeply mystical ability of yours, to claim not only to be something you are not doing, but also to claim being counted as doing it, without doing it, then it is now easy to gut your doctrinal righteousness and walk for the deeply spiritual delusion that it is:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Of course, all you have to say is that you are not walking in unrighteousness deeds of the flesh, while being coutned as walking in the Light, so that your fellowship with Jesus is in deed and in truth. Simple.

For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial?

But, you will not. I predict you will say you are doing so with a doctrinal answer, and not by a yes or no answer.

But, sincerely, I would love you to prove me wrong for the first time in this matter. Just say your doctrinal walk in the Light with Jesus, does not include doing works of the flesh.



True. Those still sinning and walking in darkness, are lying when they say they have Jesus and no sin as He:

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.



And so we see more mystery of doctrinal justification without doing works of righteousness: no man has sin and Christ, in whom is no sin.

And no man can say he has Christ, before ever receiving Christ.



When we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us all past sins, so that we can confess Jesus Christ is come in our spirit and flesh with power to do His righteousness, that He did in the days of His flesh.

Just to claiming doctrinal righteousness, while doing unrighteousness, is not sane doctrine:

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
You say "True" but then accuse me of not being true. That is enough said.

I am not going to argue each of these points with you--but I have stated the truth...and that too is enough.

I will finish reading your response and if there is anything further that I feel needs to be addressed I will address it.
 

robert derrick

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You say "True" but then accuse me of not being true. That is enough said.

I am not going to argue each of these points with you--but I have stated the truth...and that too is enough.

I will finish reading your response and if there is anything further that I feel needs to be addressed I will address it.
Good.

Are you still doing unrighteous works of the flesh, while being righteous in the Light?
 

Behold

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Your teaching about works without faith nor grace


I have never stated that Salvation is anything but God's Grace.
God's Grace is Christ on the Cross.
Is that your works?
But you would add works, your works to the Cross as your Gospel of self righteousness.


Listen, There are no works you can do, that God will accept to accept you.
This is why you have to BELIEVE... so that God will take that faith, and give you forgiveness, and salvation.
 

Behold

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You see, the fearfulness of your faith alone salvation,

God offers Christ by Faith.
This is nothing to fear, unless you reject it, and teach works in place of God's Grace.
If you do that, then you are this.... Galatians 1:8
That would be your gospel, found there.
 

Behold

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Faith + Works is false, since the faith of God is never without works, .[/QUOTE]

What you just said, again, makes no sense.

The "faith of God", = that would be God's faith, not yours.

So, try to at least attempt to make some sense, with your bizarre posts.