1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

[Bible Highlighter]

Since "all have sinned" and sin is condemning, we receive Christ's righteousness in receiving Him. We aren't saved by being sinless, but receive mercy and grace. I'm 66 and have yet to meet a sinless person other than Christ Himself. Sin lives in the nature of the flesh, but we receive a 2nd nature in Christ. There is no battle with the flesh until we're born again. Do you imagine that sinners with hardened conscience care about anything but their pleasures? Or that they feel guilt over them?

John actually makes 2 contradictory statements in 1 John that we try to reconcile:
Your quote, 1 John 3:4 and 9.
But this follows after :
"8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
1 John 1:8-10

These two passages in the same epistle are clearly direct logical contradictions.
Perhaps the reconciliation between the two passages is a matter of reckoning or accounting, as the rest of the New Testament Epistles by Paul teach. In spiritual terms Christians (the born again) are reckoned or accounted as sinless because the Spirit of Christ, or "seed" of the logos is in them, not perfected, not fully matured, but growing and moving toward that perfect image which is our Lord.

This is actually expressed in the very same chapter:
"2Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." 1 John 3:2-3

For 2000 years professing Christians have been discussing our liberty in Christ in terms of what we can get away with, like children testing the limits imposed by their parents.
Scripture teaches very plainly that God is pleased by our obedience and not by our rebellion:
22So Samuel said:
“Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
As in obeying the voice of the Lord?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.
23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
He also has rejected you from being king.”
1 Samuel 15:22-23

So, God wants our loving obedience, but scripture also plainly teaches our deliverance from the kingdom of darkness, the dominion of the Spirit of this age:
"1And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."
Ephesians 2:1-3

"13He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins."
Colossians 1:13-14

That this is dependent upon enduring faith is expressed in the same chapter:
"21And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister."
Colossians 1:21-23

Once more, the carnal mind concerns itself with our own preservation, our salvation, our liberty in Christ, the acceptable limits of our behavior, but the Spirit of Christ serves Christ and glorifies the Father through Him.
1 John 3:3 isn't a commandment, but a description of the heart of a child of God. Love aims to please the object of love. Self love pleases self and this is our natural state, but a love for God is expresses itself in obedience to Him:

"15“If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you."
John 14:15-18
Here Jesus expressed two fundamental truths to Christianity. The first that obedience is an expression of love. The second and more significant is the gift of His Spirit as a sign of adoption.

Paul repeated this plainly in his letter to the Roman church:
"14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together."
Romans 8:14-17

To summarize, Christians are not characterized by behavior so much as by faith, but love leads to purity as a process through both obedience and discipline.

Jesus warned about how certain sins can destroy our souls in the afterlife in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62. Most Christians today do not even believe these warnings. They think they can sin and still be saved on some level but they will be in for a rude awakening come Judgment day, though. We believers cannot justify sin on any level or we will not make it into the Kingdom of God.

 

[michaelvpardo]

In John 8:34-35, Jesus basically said that the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever. Meaning, the sinning Christian will not abide in the house of Christ forever. We see an example of this in Matthew 13:41-42. Christ will send forth His angels and they will gather out of His Kingdom all who do iniquity (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

Peter actually condemns false teachers because they cannot cease from sin (See: 2 Peter 2:1, and 2 Peter 2:14).

Hebrews 12:14 says follow after holiness without which no man shall see the LORD.

That isn't what Jesus meant at all. You can mimic holiness and feign righteousness. That's what the Pharisees did.
Jesus taught that we needed a greater righteousness than the Pharisees and if you know anything about their practices, they were outwardly righteous in the extreme.
The greater righteousness that Jesus was referring to was His righteousness, that righteousness imputed to believers by faith.
You will never see salvation based upon your righteousness, never.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@1stCenturyLady

To answer your OP:

It’s “cannot commit sin.”

But the sin and still be saved crowd still finds a way to distort even “cannot commit sin” to their own dark ends. Some in in the sin and still be saved camp believe that “cannot commit sin” means that when they sin physically God does not see their sin because of their belief alone in Jesus as their Savior and or their believing in the finished work of the cross.

Note: The saying, Believe on the finished work of the cross is a silly Protestant saying that does not exist in the Bible. This is why I am non-denominatinal. The saving gospel is believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Of course there is also the call of the gospel, as well (Which is God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth - See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

 

[michaelvpardo]

Jesus warned about how certain sins can destroy our souls in the afterlife in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62. Most Christians today do not even believe these warnings. They think they can sin and still be saved on some level but they will be in for a rude awakening come Judgment day, though. We believers cannot justify sin on any level or we will not make it into the Kingdom of God.

In context, Jesus warned Jews and unregenerate souls, not the born again. If you're not born again then that warning applies to you, but not to those with His Spirit.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That isn't what Jesus meant at all. You can mimic holiness and feign righteousness. That's what the Pharisees did.

Jesus taught that we needed a greater righteousness than the Pharisees and if you know anything about their practices, they were outwardly righteous in the extreme.
The greater righteousness that Jesus was referring to was His righteousness, that righteousness imputed to believers by faith.

No. Jesus was actually referring to the Pharisees actions and not His imputed righteousness. In Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42, Jesus basically says that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy.

You will never see salvation based upon your righteousness, never.

Sorry. You need to read the Bible more closely.

Take for example Galatians 6:8-9. It says in verse 8 that we are to sow to the Spirit and we will reap life everlasting. Then it defines what this sowing to the Spirit is in verse 9 by saying it is “well doing” (which are the good works God tells us to do in His Word). It says in verse 9 that we will reap if we faint not. Meaning, if we don’t give up in doing good (By sowing to the Spirit), we will reap life everlasting.[/QUOTE]

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That isn't what Jesus meant at all. You can mimic holiness and feign righteousness. That's what the Pharisees did.
Jesus taught that we needed a greater righteousness than the Pharisees and if you know anything about their practices, they were outwardly righteous in the extreme.
The greater righteousness that Jesus was referring to was His righteousness, that righteousness imputed to believers by faith.
You will never see salvation based upon your righteousness, never.

God looks at the heart. Of course no person can fake it. But you need to live righteously or you will not make it into God’s Kingdom.

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That isn't what Jesus meant at all. You can mimic holiness and feign righteousness. That's what the Pharisees did.
Jesus taught that we needed a greater righteousness than the Pharisees and if you know anything about their practices, they were outwardly righteous in the extreme.
The greater righteousness that Jesus was referring to was His righteousness, that righteousness imputed to believers by faith.
You will never see salvation based upon your righteousness, never.

Reread the whole Sermon on the Mount again (Matthew 5-7). The whole discourse if focused on our actions in what we must do and Jesus warning against how certain sins can destroy our souls. Nowhere does Jesus talk about any imaginary Protestant sin and still be saved type belief here. This is why I am non-denominational. Too often, Christians just listen to their pastors and or they read Christian articles, but they simply do not read and believe their own Bible in what it plainly says. If they do read their Bible, they believe the commentary over what the Bible says.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In context, Jesus warned Jews and unregenerate souls, not the born again. If you're not born again then that warning applies to you, but not to those with His Spirit.

That does not make any sense. For example: If you tell an unbeliever that they need to forgive everyone, it would not matter if they actually did do that if they did not accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. They can forgive everyone in the whole world and be on their way to hell unless they accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and they turn away from their sins. So if Jesus was warning unbelievers about how certain sins can destroy their soul, it would not make any sense because they first need to accept Jesus as their Savior to be even saved to begin with.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Sins of the flesh, the abominations and the things God hates are CLEARLY defined .
Proverbs 6:16-19 = sins( mostly of the heart outwards)
Actually this chapter is especially revealing about sin !

Hating your brother 1 John 2:11
Loving your life John 12:25

1Corinthians 6:9-11

There are many many scriptures that plainly state what sin is and how it rules the flesh if we do not live under God's grace....for ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNES is sin

Paul's remedy was this Galatians 5:16-18.

Jesus summed all sin up as this..
Matthew 22: 37-40
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord they God with ALL thy heart, and with ALL thy soul, and with ALL thy mind.
This is the FIRST and greatest commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
On these two commandments hang ALL the law and the prophets.


Definition of commit- to carry into action deliberately...WM
Practice - to do or perform often, customarily, or habitually. WM

I use KJB only but you feel free to use whatever translation you like.

 

[MatthewG]

What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicing sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing to word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.

From my understand 1 John is a whole letter.

You can quote one scripture, from that letter, while in turn rejecting other parts of the letter.

New International Version

3 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devilare: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

More on Love and Hatred
11 For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us.And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

A person can commit sins and there is a punishment for it - if you kill someone you go to jail, as an example.

A person who has been reborn again - strives to do the will of God and not their own will, though they will do their own will, so thus, all people commit sin, but Jesus has paid for that sin.

Does that give us a license as a Christian born again believer to sin? If one does sin they can quench the Spirit that is a problem.

Paul talks about in Romans that individuals have to come to die with Christ, and be raised with Christ - dying to the self and living towards God.

That is a difficult life-long process that will not be achieved until death - where a person is resurrected and given a new spiritual body to go on to live with God because of their faith.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Gospel of Grace!

Grace there is a true definition of God's Grace of the New Covenant, and a false one by false teachers.

What is your definition to see who you are believing?

Some believe the theology of receiving the Holy Spirit, but have never experienced it. Its and event, not a belief.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The "flesh (OLD nature)" can and does SIN!

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

You haven't said that you don't apply these to yourself, so what is it you believe?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I fully agree with Pearl's post.



One thing I'd add is that changing the word to 'practice' allow us to expand God's grace. This is because begin sealed by the Spirit, we are more sensitive to those times we succumb to the passions of the flesh and ask for forgiveness more.

In other words you are NOT dead to the flesh? Romans 6:6-7; Romans 8:8-9

 

[michaelvpardo]

No. Jesus was actually referring to the Pharisees actions and not His imputed righteousness. In Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42, Jesus basically says that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy.



Sorry. You need to read the Bible more closely.

Take for example Galatians 6:8-9. It says in verse 8 that we are to sow to the Spirit and we will reap life everlasting. Then it defines what this sowing to the Spirit is in verse 9 by saying it is “well doing” (which are the good works God tells us to do in His Word). It says in verse 9 that we will reap if we faint not. Meaning, if we don’t give up in doing good (By sowing to the Spirit), we will reap life everlasting.

[/QUOTE]
You didn't read my post or didn't comprehend what I said. The Pharisees were very outwardly righteous men. Their behavior was at times impeccable as in Paul's personal testimony, but the Pharisees were not born again individuals. Jesus addressed Jews before His Spirit was given at Pentacost and every word He said has to be understood in the light of whom He spoke to.
You are either a saint or an ain't. You are either born again and a new creation, or not.

I don't know you, so I don't know if you're spiritually alive, but I know the Spirit within me, because He testifies of God in the person of Christ. He teaches me and I would appreciate it if you didn't blaspheme Him by denying what He's taught.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

John actually makes 2 contradictory statements in 1 John that we try to reconcile:
Your quote, 1 John 3:4 and 9.
But this follows after :
"8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
1 John 1:8-10

These two passages in the same epistle are clearly direct logical contradictions.

You need to learn to discern key words used by the apostle to know what they mean, and why there is no contradiction. There are many you talk the talk and tell lies, then there are those who walk in the light and there is no sin in them.

1 John 2:
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who SAYS, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who SAYS he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who SAYS he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

1 John 1:
5 God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we SAY that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we SAY that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we SAY that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[michaelvpardo]

That does not make any sense. For example: If you tell an unbeliever that they need to forgive everyone, it would not matter if they actually did do that if they did not accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. They can forgive everyone in the whole world and be on their way to hell unless they accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and they turn away from their sins. So if Jesus was warning unbelievers about how certain sins can destroy their soul, it would not make any sense because they first need to accept Jesus as their Savior to be even saved to begin with.

You are confused in the extreme. Jews were not "unbelievers" but in a covenant with God given through Moses. They just weren't born again, nor were all taught by God. Those taught by God received Christ. He said so. However they received His words, not His Spirit, because the Holy Spirit was not given to indwell men until after the resurrection.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

A person who has been reborn again - strives to do the will of God and not their own will, though they will do their own will, so thus, all people commit sin, but Jesus has paid for that sin.

Does that give us a license as a Christian born again believer to sin? If one does sin they can quench the Spirit that is a problem.

Both the person who does their own will and sin, and those who quench the Spirit are in peril. They are both sinning willfully. Did Jesus pay for their right to sin willfully? Or did Jesus take away their old sins, and now they are committing new willful sins. What happens to those sins? Must the crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame Hebrews 6.

Paul talks about in Romans that individuals have to come to die with Christ, and be raised with Christ - dying to the self and living towards God.

That is a difficult life-long process that will not be achieved until death - where a person is resurrected and given a new spiritual body to go on to live with God because of their faith.

What exactly is a "life-long process" and what does it accomplish? Its a process to do what?

 

[michaelvpardo]

You need to learn to discern key words used by the apostle to know what they mean, and why there is no contradiction. There are many you talk the talk and tell lies, then there are those who walk in the light and there is no sin in them.

1 John 2:
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who SAYS, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who SAYS he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who SAYS he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

1 John 1:
5 God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we SAY that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we SAY that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we SAY that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

No I don't. I need to listen to the Holy Spirit when reading His word, which is how I'm taught by God. These posts question Christ's faithfulness, first they question God's election and power to save, then they question His faithfulness in committing to fulfill His covenant through us.
How do you say that you know God, yet say that He will not finish the work He started in preparing a bride for His Son?
God calls whom He will call. He quickens His word to our Spirit to convict of sin and to convince of truth. We either believe Him or we don't. We either live by His righteousness or die in our sin. The righteousness of man is the equivalent of dirty menstrual cloth to God, corrupted and unclean.
We are saved by His grace, and we walk in sanctification by His grace.

Jesus taught His disciples one prayer as a pattern to talk with God and in it, the request is to be kept from temptation and delivered from sin. If sinlessness were the real expectation, then why didn't Christ teach us to pray to be sinless. That would contradict John's teaching in 1John. The original letter wasn't broken into chapters. Dissecting it into contradictions is dishonest and a pretext to oppose the cross.

 

[MatthewG]

In other words you are NOT dead to the flesh? Romans 6:6-7; Romans 8:8-9

Both the person who does their own will and sin, and those who quench the Spirit are in peril. They are both sinning willfully. Did Jesus pay for their right to sin willfully?

Some people sin unintentionally... (however all people do sin every now and then in their life even purposefully) perhaps they had a bad moment when in traffic and they cuss the person in front of them for not turning the blinker on and call them a mean name....

Jesus Christ paid for all the sins of the world - that means he had paid for all the pedophiles sins, the murders sins, the homosexual sins, all of them.

That is a choice to believe or not, and what can you do if a person says that they have faith in God? Judge them by their character? You could but thankfully not one human being is God...

God is fair, and just and righteous in his judgments. Not me or you wouldn't you say?

The sin thing has been taken care of.

Or did Jesus take away their old sins, and now they are committing new willful sins. What happens to those sins? Must the crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame Hebrews 6.

Either you believe all sins have been taken care of because of Christ or you don't.

Our fleshly nature in it dwells nothing good.

What exactly is a "life-long process" and what does it accomplish? Its a process to do what?

A life-long process of serving and doing the will of God by the spirit.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Ever notice how some people ask questions, but don't want answers?