1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

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How many choose practice over commit in connection with 1 John 1:4 and 9

  • Cannot "practice" sin

    Votes: 13 72.2%
  • Cannot "commit sin

    Votes: 5 27.8%

  • Total voters
    18

1stCenturyLady

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What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicing sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing the word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.
 
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Michiah-Imla

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What does changing to word to practice allow us to do

It allows for “unpracticed” sin.

Of course sin no longer has dominion over a Biblical Christian.

He cannot sin unless he does so wilfully.

And the consequences of willful sin is the lake of fire without recourse:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

The ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED adherents cannot abide this truth because sin still has dominion over them to some degree.
 

1stCenturyLady

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It allows for “unpracticed” sin.

Of course sin no longer has dominion over a Biblical Christian.

He cannot sin unless he does so wilfully.

And the consequences of willful sin is the lake of fire without recourse:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

The ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED adherents cannot abide this truth because sin still has dominion over them to some degree.

I agree with the rest of your post. But which is the best translation:

"Unpractised" is not in the any translation. Please answer the question.
 

ScottA

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What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicing sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing to word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.
The answer here is really in understanding what being "born of God" actually means according to Him (rather than what our human logic would tend to believe). The meaning has been casually written in scripture many times--which does not define it per se, but rather that it has also been clearly declared as "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us."

Knowing then that Christ has not and does not sin--even to say we sin, is a confession of the fact that we have not "decreased and Christ increased" in us (as John the Baptist said "must" be done), and therefore "the light in us is darkness", and not Christ at all. This kind of superficial would-be salvation is rather a form of self-imposed resistance--against Christ, by definition: anti-Christ. Therefore, what biblically can and is otherwise finished "in the twinkling of an eye"--"old things have passed away, all things have become new", is an abuse of His grace and the product of the half-hearted prolonging our days in darkness according to the workings of Satan.

To the contrary, if we believe with a whole heart that "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us", He is indeed gracious to see us through this new form of life in the spirit while remaining in sinful flesh...just as even He himself wore the marks of sin after going to the cross until He was no more in the world, but committed no sin in so doing.
 
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Pearl

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We are no longer 'living in sin' or 'living sinful lives' once we have received Jesus, but we are human and still 'commit' some sinful actions. The difference though between the before and after is that we now recognise our sins for what they are - our consciences kick in - and as we mature we should see less and less of those sins in our lives and we become closer and more intimate with God.
 

GRACE ambassador

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The ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED adherents cannot abide this truth because sin still has dominion over them
Of Course, Yes, we Definitely know, According To Scriptures (Tit 3:5)
that ALL individuals Baptized By The Holy Spirit's Work (#3 in
God's OPERATION), Into The Body Of Christ, Today, Under
God's Amazing Grace And Mercy, Are the Truly Saved Of God!

And we Definitely know Why Christ, At His Bema Seat (below...),
Judge us for our "works" And NOT send us to "fiery indignation!":

Why is it so difficult to "Take God At His Plain Word"? Everything
has to be "re-interpreted to a Vastly Different meaning," or take
what applies to previous/future dispensations and "MIX them up"
with God's Dispensation Of GRACE, today?

A humble six-year-old child would correctly quiz: "IF God
DIDN'T mean what He Said, why didn't He Say What He
Meant"???:

In God's Dispensation Of Grace/Mystery (Rom - Phm)​

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and
every man Shall Receive his own reward according to
his own labour. For we are labourers together with God:
ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

According to The Grace of God which is given unto me, as a
wise masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation, and another
buildeth Thereon. But let every man take heed how he
buildeth Thereupon
. For other foundation can no man lay
than That is laid, Which Is Jesus Christ.

Now IF any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work
Shall Be Made Manifest
: for The Day Shall Declare it,
because it Shall Be Revealed by fire; and the fire shall
try every man's work
of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon,
he Shall Receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:
BUT he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire."
(1Co 3:8-15)
-------------------------------

Sounds Plain And Clear, ETERNALLY Saved BY God's Grace
And Mercy
(Because Of HIS BLOOD, NOT our behaviour), to me!

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And
Edified In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
!

Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

[Relationship/ETERNAL Life vs fellowship/rewards]:
Grace, Peace, And JOY!
 

1stCenturyLady

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op: cannot practice/commit sin?

Depends, "the seed God Planted" At Salvation, Cannot sin!

The "flesh (OLD nature)" can and does SIN!

[Relationship/ETERNAL Life vs fellowship/rewards]:
Grace, Peace, And JOY!

Grace, I want to address you separately because you are the most in peril of believing false doctrine. We Must be born again, and that means we Must receive the Holy Spirit indwelling us. The church fathers that taught you twisted the doctrine you just quoted and don't even mention the Spirit because they don't know anything about Him or His work in us. Those in the Spirit ARE NOT IN THE FLESH. That is what you don't understand any better than those church fathers did. Read this.

Romans 8:8-9
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Here is the reason. Read Romans 6:6-7 The old man is the old carnal nature Paul calls "the flesh."
 
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1stCenturyLady

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@grace, @Pearl @ScottA

None of you answered the question regarding with translation is correct.

1. "practice"
2. "commit"

Please tell me now. And if you chose "practice." what does "practice" entail?
 
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Pearl

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1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

It takes a newborn a long time to learn anything so I think it's the same for newborn-again Christians. We all take time to learn not to commit anything that is sinful.
 
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GRACE ambassador

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you are the most in peril of believing false doctrine.
Appreciate your concern...
We Must be born again, and that means we Must receive the Holy Spirit indwelling us.
Yes, agree, no peril, did that decades ago, obeying God's
Gospel of Grace!
The church fathers you that taught the twisted doctrine you just quoted
I don't "quote church fathers"; just Bible!:

God Has Made it Plain And Clear!:

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God DOTH NOT commit sin; for his
seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT sin
, because he is born of God.

vs

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Plain And Clear, Correct?

[Relationship/ETERNAL Life vs fellowship/rewards]:
Grace, Peace, And JOY!
 

Wrangler

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Please participate fully.

:)

What does changing to word to practice allow us to do.

I fully agree with Pearl's post.

We are no longer 'living in sin' or 'living sinful lives' once we have received Jesus, but we are human and still 'commit' some sinful actions. The difference though between the before and after is that we now recognise our sins for what they are - our consciences kick in - and as we mature we should see less and less of those sins in our lives and we become closer and more intimate with God.

One thing I'd add is that changing the word to 'practice' allow us to expand God's grace. This is because begin sealed by the Spirit, we are more sensitive to those times we succumb to the passions of the flesh and ask for forgiveness more.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Appreciate your concern...

Yes, agree, no peril, did that decades ago, obeying God's
Gospel of Grace!

I don't "quote church fathers"; just Bible!:

God Has Made it Plain And Clear!:

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God DOTH NOT commit sin; for his
seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT sin
, because he is born of God.

vs

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Plain And Clear, Correct?

[Relationship/ETERNAL Life vs fellowship/rewards]:
Grace, Peace, And JOY!

This sounds like Dual Nature Theology (Which is false).
You appear to believe (that when you sin) the spirit does not sin because of your belief on Jesus as your Savior, but your flesh sins instead.

Sorry. This simply is not the case. Romans 7:14-24 is Paul talking in the present tense from his perspective as a Pharisee before he came to Jesus Christ. Otherwise why would Paul ask the question in who can deliver him from this body of death?

Dual Nature Theology is refuted by 2 Corinthians 7:1. Paul says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
 
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michaelvpardo

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What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicing sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing to word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.
Since "all have sinned" and sin is condemning, we receive Christ's righteousness in receiving Him. We aren't saved by being sinless, but receive mercy and grace. I'm 66 and have yet to meet a sinless person other than Christ Himself. Sin lives in the nature of the flesh, but we receive a 2nd nature in Christ. There is no battle with the flesh until we're born again. Do you imagine that sinners with hardened conscience care about anything but their pleasures? Or that they feel guilt over them?

John actually makes 2 contradictory statements in 1 John that we try to reconcile:
Your quote, 1 John 3:4 and 9.
But this follows after :
"8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
1 John 1:8-10

These two passages in the same epistle are clearly direct logical contradictions.
Perhaps the reconciliation between the two passages is a matter of reckoning or accounting, as the rest of the New Testament Epistles by Paul teach. In spiritual terms Christians (the born again) are reckoned or accounted as sinless because the Spirit of Christ, or "seed" of the logos is in them, not perfected, not fully matured, but growing and moving toward that perfect image which is our Lord.

This is actually expressed in the very same chapter:
"2Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." 1 John 3:2-3

For 2000 years professing Christians have been discussing our liberty in Christ in terms of what we can get away with, like children testing the limits imposed by their parents.
Scripture teaches very plainly that God is pleased by our obedience and not by our rebellion:
22So Samuel said:
“Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
As in obeying the voice of the Lord?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.
23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
He also has rejected you from being king.”
1 Samuel 15:22-23

So, God wants our loving obedience, but scripture also plainly teaches our deliverance from the kingdom of darkness, the dominion of the Spirit of this age:
"1And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."
Ephesians 2:1-3

"13He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins."
Colossians 1:13-14

That this is dependent upon enduring faith is expressed in the same chapter:
"21And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister."
Colossians 1:21-23

Once more, the carnal mind concerns itself with our own preservation, our salvation, our liberty in Christ, the acceptable limits of our behavior, but the Spirit of Christ serves Christ and glorifies the Father through Him.
1 John 3:3 isn't a commandment, but a description of the heart of a child of God. Love aims to please the object of love. Self love pleases self and this is our natural state, but a love for God expresses itself in obedience to Him:

"15“If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you."
John 14:15-18
Here Jesus expressed two fundamental truths to Christianity. The first that obedience is an expression of love. The second and more significant is the gift of His Spirit as a sign of adoption.

Paul repeated this plainly in his letter to the Roman church:
"14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together."
Romans 8:14-17

To summarize, Christians are not characterized by behavior so much as by faith, but love leads to purity as a process through both obedience and discipline.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Since "all have sinned" and sin is condemning, we receive Christ's righteousness in receiving Him. We aren't saved by being sinless, but receive mercy and grace. I'm 66 and have yet to meet a sinless person other than Christ Himself. Sin life's in the nature of the flesh, but we receive a 2nd nature in Christ. There is no battle with the flesh until we're born again. Do you imagine that sinners with hardened conscience care about anything but their pleasures? Or that they feel guilt over them?
John actually makes 2 contradictory statements in 1 John that we try to reconcile:
Your quote, 1 John 3:4 and 9.
But this follows after :
"8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
1 John 1:8-10

These two passages in the same epistle are clearly direct logical contradictions.
Perhaps the reconciliation between the two passages is a matter of reckoning or accounting, as the rest of the New Testament Epistles by Paul teach. In spiritual terms Christians (the born again) are reckoned or accounted as sinless because the Spirit of Christ, or "seed" of the logos is in them, not perfected, not fully matured, but growing and moving toward that perfect image which is our Lord.

This is actually expressed in the very same chapter:
"2Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." 1 John 3:2-3

For 2000 years professing Christians have been discussing our liberty in Christ in terms of what we can get away with, like children testing the limits imposed by their parents.
Scripture teaches very plainly that God is pleased by our obedience and not by our rebellion:
22So Samuel said:
“Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
As in obeying the voice of the Lord?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.
23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
He also has rejected you from being king.”
1 Samuel 15:22-23

So, God wants our loving obedience, but scripture also plainly teaches our deliverance from the kingdom of darkness, the dominion of the Spirit of this age:
"1And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."
Ephesians 2:1-3

"13He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins."
Colossians 1:13-14

That this is dependent upon enduring faith is expressed in the same chapter:
"21And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister."
Colossians 1:21-23

Once more, the carnal mind concerns itself with our own preservation, our salvation, our liberty in Christ, the acceptable limits of our behavior, but the Spirit of Christ serves Christ and glorifies the Father through Him.
1 John 3:3 isn't a commandment, but a description of the heart of a child of God. Love aims to please the object of love. Self love pleases self and this is our natural state, but a love for God is expresses itself in obedience to Him:

"15“If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you."
John 14:15-18
Here Jesus expressed two fundamental truths to Christianity. The first that obedience is an expression of love. The second and more significant is the gift of His Spirit as a sign of adoption.

Paul repeated this plainly in his letter to the Roman church:
"14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together."
Romans 8:14-17

To summarize, Christians are not characterized by behavior so much as by faith, but love leads to purity as a process through both obedience and discipline.

In John 8:34-35, Jesus basically said that the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever. Meaning, the sinning Christian will not abide in the house of Christ forever. We see an example of this in Matthew 13:41-42. Christ will send forth His angels and they will gather out of His Kingdom all who do iniquity (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

Peter actually condemns false teachers because they cannot cease from sin (See: 2 Peter 2:1, and 2 Peter 2:14).

Hebrews 12:14 says follow after holiness without which no man shall see the LORD.
 
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