1Peter 3:18

[Ronald Nolette]

I care what Paul was inspired to write at 1 Corinthians 15:35-44. Because I know many people today have their personal views about life after death. Although I understand that these many people think their views are consistent with the scriptures I disagree that they are.

When someone dies, his body decomposes. But the One who created the universe from nothing can resurrect that person, giving him a suitable body. (Genesis 1:1; 2:7) Paul used an illustration to show that God would not need to bring back the same body. Think of “a bare grain,” or a plant “seed.” A seed of grain that is planted in the ground germinates and becomes a new plant. The resulting plant is quite different from the small seed. Paul used this comparison to show that our Creator can provide “a body just as it pleases him.” It's not that same seed that was planted but when resurrected that body that is resurrected isn't that same seed grain but resurrected a new body a spiritual body.

Paul noted at 1 Corinthians 15:39-41 that there is great diversity in creation. He said there are different fleshly bodies, such as cattle, birds, and fish. He stated that in the sky, we see differences between the sun and the moon. And he noted that “one star differs from another star in glory.” Yes, even if we may not discern it with the naked eye, there are what scientists call red giant stars, white dwarfs, and yellow stars, such as our sun. Paul also stated that “there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies.” How so? Well, on earth, we have bodies of flesh, but in heaven there are spirit bodies, like the ones the angels have.

Paul said next: “So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption.” Of course, upon dying, the human body decays and returns to the dust. (Gen. 3:19) So how can it be that a body is “raised up in incorruption”? Paul was not speaking of a human who is resurrected to life on earth, such as those raised by Elijah, Elisha, and Jesus. Paul was referring to a person who is resurrected with a heavenly body, that is, “a spiritual one.”(1 Corinthians 15:42-44)

When Jesus walked the earth, he had a fleshly body. But when he was resurrected, he “became a life-giving spirit” and returned to heaven. Likewise, anointed Christians would be resurrected to spirit life. Paul explained: “Just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one.”(1 Corinthians 15:45-49)

Paul was reaching the climax of his discussion of the resurrection. It is important to note that Jesus was not resurrected with a human body. Paul pointedly said: “Flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom” in heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:50) The apostles and other anointed ones would not be resurrected to heaven with corruptible bodies of flesh and blood. Paul stressed that this resurrection still lay ahead; it was not something they would experience right after they died. By the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians, some disciples had already “fallen asleep in death,” for example, the apostle James. (Acts 12:1, 2) Other apostles and anointed ones would yet fall “asleep in death.”(1 Corinthians 15:6)

Both Jesus and Paul pointed forward to a special time in history, Christ’s second presence. That presence would be marked by wars, earthquakes, pestilences, and other global developments. Paul pointed out that “the presence of the Lord” would also be a time of resurrection for anointed Christians who had “fallen asleep in death.”(1 Thessalonians 4:14-16; 1 Corinthians 15:23)

Anointed ones who today finish their earthly course are instantly raised to life in the heavens. This is confirmed by Paul’s words recorded at 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52: “We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” These words of Paul are now undergoing fulfillment! Upon their resurrection, these brothers of Christ will have complete joy; they will “always be with the Lord.”(1 Thessalonians 4:17)

Well you follow the Watchtower indoctrination well.

You freely accept retranslating Scripture to fit Watchtower doctrine, instead of retranslating doctrine to fit Scripture as we are commanded to do.

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• But let us look at the Words of Jesus again.

John 2:18-22
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Jesus said "Destroy this temple" and in three days I will raise this temple.

So what was destroyed of jesus? His spirit? NO NO NO!!!! HIs physical body! He wasn't destroyed as an invisible spirit creature. He was destroyed in a physical body.

Jesus told the pharisees, kill this body, and in three days I will raise this body from the dead!

Accept teh word of God.

I agree with Paul in 1 Cor. 15:

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

Nothing in Scripture says spirit s are invisible and do not have some type of material body.

And despite the Watchtower teaching- every single soul will be raised from the dead and rejoined with their bodies:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Everyperson who ever existed will be resurrected in a new body!

Some to glory and some to suffering.

Paul did not say th elost will not be resurrected or resurrected in the mortal bodies they died in.

Accept Jesus [physical resurrection aND be saved.

 

[Davy]

But that was Jesus showing them the hands and feet of the human body that he temporarily formed to convince Thomas that he had indeed been resurrected to life again. He didn't show them his spiritual body. That human body disintegrated once he had finished with it; later he appeared to seven disciples again in a different looking human body (John 21 - verse 12 says, "None of the disciples dared inquire of him, “Who are you?” knowing that it was the Lord").

According to Hebews 1:3 (ISV), "He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being"- that doesn't sound like he is scarred in any way. Why would his new body have scars? When we are resurrected we will have a completely new body, totally unlike a human body, and I'm sure we won't have our human body's scars copied over into it (even if a spiritual body could look like a human body).


I don't think that physical flesh and bones, or anything physical, can be changed into a spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:50 says, "flesh and blood can’t inherit God’s Kingdom; neither does the perishable inherit imperishable".) God will give us, as He gave Jesus, a completely new spiritual body. It is completely separate from His created physical universe.

That was Christ's resurrection body, His flesh transfigured to a quickening spirit like Paul said. A problem many brethren have is not understanding that Christ's flesh body was transfigured and did not decay like our flesh bodies do and will. And this is why Christ's resurrection body has the marks of His crucifixion, as a remembrance of what He did for us upon His cross forever. That is why even the 1 Peter 3 Scripture says with His body being 'quickened' by The Spirit He was able to go preach to the "spirits in prison"...

1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
KJV

That "By which also..." phrase points to His flesh being transfigured is how He went to the "spirits in prison".

Another thing many brethren fail to understand about the resurrection body, is that it is simply a body of the heavenly order. Apostle Paul explained this in 1 Corinthians 15:45-50. Paul even said as we have borne the "image of the earthy", i.e., a flesh body, we shall also bear the "image of the heavenly". That image of the heavenly is simply a body like the angels, which is how Lord Jesus meant the "as the angels of God in heaven" in the Matthew 22:30 Scripture.

This is why in Genesis 18, The LORD (Jesus Christ) appears to Abraham with two angels. Abraham is sitting at his tent door, and suddenly he sees "three men" appear nearby. He goes to meet them and bows to one of them (Lord Jesus). The other two were the two angels sent to Lot in Genesis 19.

What does Abraham then do? He begs The LORD to go over and rest under the tree while he gets some water to wash His feet. Then Abraham had cakes prepared for them, and had a calf killed, and gave them butter and milk, and gave it to them and they did eat.

So HOW... is the heavenly image type body able to eat our food? Lord Jesus did the same thing in His resurrection body, so His eating the piece of fish and honeycomb given Him by His disciples does not prove His body then was still a flesh body. Plus, how did Jesus suddenly appear right in their midst out of nowhere, if He was still in His old flesh body? Those who just single out the idea of flesh and bones while forgetting all the other points of Scripture will stay confused about this event.

It points to the "image of the heavenly" type body being able to live upon this earth, and it looks like flesh, feels like flesh, but it is a heavenly type body like the angels. I mean, even The Father once lived upon this earth, as that is what Genesis 2 shows with the Garden of Eden once being upon this earth before Adam and Eve sinned. In Isaiah 45:18, God said He created the earth not in vain, but to be inhabited, i.e. to be lived upon. And that means for Himself also living with us on earth, which the end of Revelation is showing His future return, both Christ and The Father living with us in the future.

But those who do not yet understand this, all will, at the future resurrection when Jesus returns.

 

[Davy]

I don't think that physical flesh and bones, or anything physical, can be changed into a spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:50 says, "flesh and blood can’t inherit God’s Kingdom; neither does the perishable inherit imperishable".) God will give us, as He gave Jesus, a completely new spiritual body. It is completely separate from His created physical universe.

That means then, that you doubt the power of God.

And please don't show your Biblical ignorance by trying to use that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" by Apostle Paul, because Paul was talking about a FLESH BODY with that, and that certainly does not... support your doubt that Jesus was in His resurrection body when He suddenly appeared in the midst of His disciples and He ate a piece of fish and honeycomb.

 

[keithr]

And despite the Watchtower teaching- every single soul will be raised from the dead and rejoined with their bodies:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

That is not referring to the resurrection of the Church, the first resurrection. The following apply to partakers of the first resurrection:

2 Corinthians 5:17 (WEB):

(17) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.​

1 Corinthians 15:51

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​

 

[keithr]

That was Christ's resurrection body, His flesh transfigured to a quickening spirit like Paul said.

Transfigured? The only time Jesus was transfigured Jesus told his disciples that they had seen a vision (not reality) - Matthew 17:9 (KJV):

(9) And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.​

A problem many brethren have is not understanding that Christ's flesh body was transfigured and did not decay like our flesh bodies do and will. And this is why Christ's resurrection body has the marks of His crucifixion, as a remembrance of what He did for us upon His cross forever.

So how come on Jesus' other physical appearances he did not have crucifixion scars, and he was unrecognisable? Mary Magdalene thought he was a gardener - John 20:14-15 (WEB):

(14) When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, and didn’t know that it was Jesus.
(15) Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Who are you looking for?” She, supposing him to be the gardener, said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.”​

The two disciples on the road to Emmaus talked with Jesus for hours but didn't recognise him (Luke 24:13-31). The third time Jesus appeared to the disciples (according to John) he again looked different, so that "None of the disciples dared inquire of him, “Who are you?” knowing that it was the Lord" (John 21:12).

1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Other translations say, "put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit", i.e. his human body died and God gave him life in a spirit body. He doesn't retain his human body - that he gave as a sacrifice (not to be retreived once given, but to be permanantly given up).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is not referring to the resurrection of the Church, the first resurrection. The following apply to partakers of the first resurrection:

2 Corinthians 5:17 (WEB):

(17) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.​

1 Corinthians 15:51

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​

Well those are at teh rapture.

teh first resurrection defined in Rev. 20 is for those trib saints who died and did not take the mark or worship the image of the beast.

 

[ElieG12]

There are enough statements in the Scriptures about the resurrection of Jesus in a spirit body, besides 1 Pet. 3:18.

I totally agree with you, @BARNEY BRIGHT .

Spiritual beings like angels have a body that is not like ours, but is distinguishable from each other. That individual characteristic allows them to have their own personal name, such as the angel Gabriel or the Archangel Michael. They can also communicate with each other, or with humans as in ancient times, and they also can have meetings with thousands of them in heaven, such as those assemblies that we are told about in the Scriptures, like the one in 2 Chro. 18:18-22.

"Having a body" does not necessarily imply that it is having a body of flesh, bone, and blood like the bodies of living beings on earth (including human bodies). Before Jesus lived on earth he lived in heaven next to God, and his body was not human but in spirit. The Bible says that he took on a human body when he was born (Heb. 10:5-10; Phil. 2:5-11), but that body was inferior even to angels (Heb. 2:6-9). After being resurrected, he no longer has a "relatively inferior" body, but a spirit body, similar to the one he had before being human, and he is very powerful (1 Tim. 6:15,16).

Speaking accurately and based on the fact that the disciples were able to see Jesus resurrected, it is not accurate to say that he was resurrected in a body of flesh; the exact statement is to say that he appeared in bodies of flesh, and that is different from the previous one. Actually, the Bible says that his appearances were limited to some specific people. He did not make himself visible to anyone who did not belong to that group of persons chosen by God to receive that privilege at that time.

Acts 10:40 God raised this one up on the third day and allowed him to become manifest, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after his rising from the dead.

Good topic.

Some points there to meditate on.

Acts 10:40, for example, is saying Jesus' body after the resurrection was INVISIBLE and Jesus had to "manifest" himself or make himself visible, so that others could be aware of his presence. Most of the time after he was resurrected he was in his new invisible body. What does that mean?It means that his new body is a spirit body, not made of visible solid material like human bodies and therefore not "physical" in the basic sense.

Have you already meditated on that biblical text and what it implies?

 

[marks]

Acts 10:40, for example, is saying Jesus' body after the resurrection was INVISIBLE a

No it's not.

Acts 10:39-41 KJV
39) And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40) Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41) Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

God didn't show Him to everyone.

I have a 1892 silver dollar. I don't show it to everyone, but it's not invisible! Is this another Watchtower teaching?

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

Nobody else saw Jesus after his resurrection, only those chosen by God, the One who resurrected him. He was invisible to everyone else. That is what the Scripture says. Do you believe what these verses says?

(The Emphasized Bible) Acts 10:40 The same God raised up on the third day, and gave him to become manifest, 41 not unto all the people but unto witnesses who had been fore-appointed by God, unto us who indeed did eat and drink with him after his rising from among the dead.

Amazing how you quote the passage yourself, but don't get the idea of what it is saying.

 

[marks]

Since Peter was saying that Jesus’ was resurrected “in the spirit.” This explains why on the resurrection morning when God’s angel rolled the stone from the door of the tomb the soldier guards did not see Jesus rise from the dead and come out, although they did see the materialized angel sitting on the stone. (Matthew 28:1-4) This also explains why, when the resurrected Jesus met two disciples walking that day to Emmaus and went along with them and started to take supper with them, they did not know him until he began to serve the bread; and then he disappeared from them. (Luke 24:13-35)

Why did the angels point to the empty spot where His body had been laid in death as evidence of Jesus' resurrection?

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

Why did the angels point to the empty spot where His body had been laid in death as evidence of Jesus' resurrection?

Much love!

Because the disappearance of the body from the place where it was before, would give them the exact idea of Jesus' resurrection. That does not mean at all that Jesus had returned to that body to occupy it.

Do you really think that Jesus would return to a physical body so battered by the beatings and torture he had received? And do you think he walked out of there naked?

 

[marks]

Behold said,
It's the Jehovah's Witness CULT that teaches that Jesus was not raised from the Dead in a body.[/QUOTE\]

This is seriously inaccurate. Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus wasn't resurrected from the dead in a human body because we honestly believe the scriptures say that Jesus was resurrected from the dead in a spirit body not a human body. Now if there are those that believe Jesus was resurrected from the dead in a human body, I would disagree with them, and say he was resurrected from the dead in a spirit body, but I would never accuse them of teaching that Jesus wasn't resurrected from the dead in a body, because they do believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead in a body, they just believe it was a human body he was resurrected with, and Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus was resurrected from the dead in a spirit body. So telling people that Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus wasn't resurrected from the dead in a body, is inaccurate.

The same body, with the same wounds. Jesus pointed to them just like showing His driver's license.

Luke 24:39 KJV
39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

The same body, with the same wounds. Jesus pointed to them just like showing His driver's license.

Luke 24:39 KJV
39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Much love!

The marks he showed Thomas were to convince him that it was himself. Do you think that if it had been the same body, Thomas would not have recognized him simply by seeing his face?

 

[marks]

Because the disappearance of the body from the place where it was before, would give them the exact idea of Jesus' resurrection. That does not mean at all that Jesus had returned to that body to occupy it.

Do you really think that Jesus would return to a physical body so battered by the beatings and torture he had received? And do you think he walked out of there naked?

So then God hid Jesus' dead body to convince His disciples that He was raised spiritually?

Again, the angels pointed to the empty spot as evidence that Jesus was risen from the dead. According to your claim, the empty spot was actually evidence that Jesus' discarded body had been removed, or destroyed.

So really, you are claiming the angels deceived the disciples. I don't believe that for a moment!

Do you really think that Jesus would return to a physical body so battered by the beatings and torture he had received? And do you think he walked out of there naked?

Meaningless questions, that have nothing to do with whatever really happened there.

Jesus carried the marks of the wounds in His hand and side. And for all I know, He was so disfigured from the beating that this is why no one recognized Him. At the time, He didn't even look like a man!

But in point of fact, Jesus showed His wounds to His disciples, for the same purpose that the angels pointed to the empty tomb. Was Jesus likewise deceiving them?

Again, I don't believe that for a moment!

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

A spirit is invisible ... How would they know?

There are a lot of biblical statements about the body Jesus has after his resurrection.

Some of you who think he has a human body up there ... Funny to think about it. I imagine that resurrected Jesus of you like an astronaut.

 

[marks]

Does God really have to tell lies to be believed?

Doesn't that question answer itself?

If you think God lies to His people, what else do you think He's lied about??

I can't even imaging how those who claim Christianity, and who claim to believe the Bible, present God as a liar.

Much love!

 

[marks]

A spirit is invisible ... How would they know?

John 20:27-28 KJV
27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Luke 24:39 KJV
39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

He proved it to them with truth, not lies.

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

"God telling lies"? Mmmh, I got you, trying to build a straw doll based on false accusations ...

Read these passages: 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 5:7; 9:14; 1 Cor. 15:44-49; 2 Cor. 5:16.

After reading those passages, tell me: who is lying?

 

[marks]

"God telling lies"? Mmmh, I got you, trying to build a straw doll based on false accusations ...

Read these passages: 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 5:7; 9:14; 1 Cor. 15:44-49; 2 Cor. 5:16.

After reading those passages, tell me: who is lying?

While this is deflection, and not a response,

Here, let me help you . . .

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 5:7 KJV
7) Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Hebrews 9:14 KJV
14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Corinthians 15:44-49 KJV
44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV
16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Pasting a list of references isn't the same as actually looking at the Scriptures together. It may look impressive, but, let's take a real look.

Which of passages would you like to begin with, to show me that Jesus was deceiving His disciples as the means of getting them to believe He rose from the dead?

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

I only saw accusations. Do you need an answer to what question?

Did you read those passages I mentioned to you?

When Jesus said: "Look, a spirit has not flesh and bones ...", he was scaring them away, showing them the body he had at that moment.

Do you think that the angels who appeared to humans in ancient times would not have said exactly the same thing if somebody was scared of them, even though their real bodies are not flesh and bones?